Update 01/09

[Penril]

nothing to lock i talked about cross mirro, mean you get something from classes that are not paired,

SM/ch do spiritual damage as bame attack
Ch/IB disrupt tactic

etc i can make more exemple

mirror meccanic are related to meccaanics anc cc
kobs/ch auras + stag
BO/SM aoe KB + meccanic
IB/BG meccanic + aoe snare+ heal regen

etc

war is completly cross mirrored, most of time 1 skill is preset in 2 different form in 1 realm and 1 of those is mirrored in the other realm.

hence bw and sw have a rdps, magus or squig shoudl ahve one not sorc.

Marauder-WL-SH-SW are cross-mirrors, because they share a LOT of skills or mechanic, yet they are not full mirrors like WE and WH, or BW and Sorc.

SH having Bad Gas doesn't make it a cross-mirror of Slayer just because he has Shatter Limbs.

Anyway i give up, i think this thread should be locked or people should start talking about balance in different, new threads.

[mistgun]

I've mained a SM since war day 1, it would be awesome if they got some love soon.

Just a idea I am throwing out there to help sm/bo be better option for group play.

Add a tactic that allows up to 2 enchantments to be active at one time and the effects also apply to group/party. (Sm tactic can be called something like double edged sword) I not sure if bo have enchantments also? Hope they do.
What do you guys think? To op?

[Tesq]

nothing to lock i talked about cross mirro, mean you get something from classes that are not paired,

SM/ch do spiritual damage as bame attack
Ch/IB disrupt tactic

etc i can make more exemple

mirror meccanic are related to meccaanics anc cc
kobs/ch auras + stag
BO/SM aoe KB + meccanic
IB/BG meccanic + aoe snare+ heal regen

etc

war is completly cross mirrored, most of time 1 skill is preset in 2 different form in 1 realm and 1 of those is mirrored in the other realm.

hence bw and sw have a rdps, magus or squig shoudl ahve one not sorc.

Marauder-WL-SH-SW are cross-mirrors, because they share a LOT of skills or mechanic.

SH having Bad Gas doesn't make it a cross-mirror of Slayer because he has Shatter Limbs.

Anyway i give up, i think this thread should be locked or people should start talking about balance in different, new threads.

i never told that, just follow the same criteria

if bw/sw have a rkd who should get a rkd on destru?

sorc? i dont think so :/

emp/chaos pairing rdps are magus/BW so the rkd should go to magus (also if you look at magus and bw dot there are some things in common) even if this mean have a not performing fix that would be the most correct decision.
Due to how generally things are cross mirrored and for realm vs realm balance.

also this is not correct: Marauder-WL-SH-SW + slayer ( and choppa it's cut having not any cross mirror and this is why is aoe path suck)

[Tesq]

I've mained a SM since war day 1, it would be awesome if they got some love soon.

Just a idea I am throwing out there to help sm/bo be better option for group play.

Add a tactic that allows up to 2 enchantments to be active at one time and the effects also apply to group/party. (Sm tactic can be called something like double edged sword) I not sure if bo have enchantments also? Hope they do.
What do you guys think? To op?

this is what i should be avoid, to make sm/bo like a second chosen/Kobs and cut out from the equation IG/BG.

As i said bo/SM would find a lot more easier the spot in premade if they could be used in place of chosen/kobs resistences aura. And obviusly kobs get nerf once in his life...

[Penril]

emp/chaos pairing mdps are Marauders and WHs. Let's give stealth to Marauders, and Terrible Embrace to WHs!

[Mez]

Tesq you are talking crazy, but unfortunately it's crazy talk that this game was designed by. In Dark Age of Camelot there were 3 realms which mirrored abilities. Like albion's sorcerer could mesmerize, but on the Midgard ream, their Healer class had it. They used the same philosophy here, but it did NOT work because they also tried to offset order and destruction with THEMES.

For example Order is defensive, strong, hunkers down. Destruction is Offensive, wild and chaotic, overextending in nature.

With this you got huge imbalances in the original game such as White Lions being able to 'Fetch' tarets from 150 feet away, Witch Hunters (fencers by nature) Being able to parry everything for 5 seconds with Repel Blasphemy. You had Freakn' squig herders that could jump inside it's pet and AOE and punt stuff 100 feet. Where is the Order version of that?

I hear what you are saying, but it's not reality in actual gameplay. The very essence of balance issues at release. Beta was screaming at Mythic to delay the game and fix issues, but they didn't. Over time it got much better, but the skills and mirrors became blended and skewed. Warrior priests got 1001 dark blessings, Dok's got group cleanse. Bright Wizards got word of pain, iron breakers got the blackguads outgoing healdebuff. But on the flipside, Blackguards didn't cave cave Win. And Order didn't get choking fury. I mean, this game is a complete mess but operating under the idea there's some natural cross mirrors that give each realm everything they need to win is crazy bro.

[Tesq]

emp/chaos pairing mdps are Marauders and WHs. Let's give stealth to Marauders, and Terrible Embrace to WHs!

as you wrote above, mara is in different cross mirror bracket, also we and wh have no cross mirror

[mistgun]

Well tesq, if Chosen can run 3 debuffs at same time? (I think that's what I've read before, but correct me if i am wrong.) why can't sm run 2 buffs that are temporary and only trigger with a 25% rate chance while occupying a tactic slot?

[Mez]

This game was designed for the players to feel each class. There's no mirrors for the best abilities. Picture Paul Barnett talking about each class and describing it. Every, "Grr, and they are like Rawrr, and die die die," is how classes were designed. They wanted you on on your witch elf to cast On Your Knees and feel like a priestess with daggers, wielding the raw power of Khaine. Look at any of the classes and you'll see. Talking about how a magus has some cleanse equals a success in mirroring the 2 realms is not forefront of anything.

[Tesq]

Well tesq, if Chosen can run 3 debuffs at same time? (I think that's what I've read before, but correct me if i am wrong.) why can't sm run 2 buffs that are temporary and only trigger with a 25% rate chance?

From a group support perspective It self explicatory, chosen/kobs should be buffer tanks, while bo/SM should be in the middle between IG/BG ( 1- buffer tank - 2 half buff/half active supp 3-active supp)

So if you give BO/SM big group buff, not only you make them do something they shouln't, but also you make them preferable to IB/BG

I want ppl suffer no more to no be able to create a group which whatever tank they want, what discriminate Bo/Sm is chosen/kobs resistences aura in wb play.

Also bo/sm have alredy something comparable to auras in form of wep skill group buff (BO) and 2 stackable spiritual damage debuff and aoe resistence buff but with a ST value (SM),
What they lack as 3rd aura they get it via dps, they do mroe dps than chosen/kobs,
So exept all the other little fixed like kd on 9 point for both, if they could being an alternative more reliable to chosen/kobs aura. They for sure be played more often.

Not like chosen/KOBS need not some fix here and there, cos that's the main problem.

That's why i support the idea to remove super putn from chosen/KObs they are buffer tanks, thay shoudl not get hte best cc around, those should stay on the worst buff tanks in game IB/BG
BO/SM should have medium buff and medium active support.


EDIT: to answer deeper to your question, auras are needed, the most is resistence auras, bw /sorc would make too much damage with out that one (hence why bo/Sm should proc better the resistence).
all stats auras buff x and debuff half of x , they were nerfed in 1.3.6.
All stats auras are bind to different path so you cannot buff all stats much togheter, and also have the good stuff from paths you want( this is quite right for chosen and totaly wrong for kobs),
Summary aura system is needed to check the dps of game under controll.
Sometimes 2nd and 90% 3rd aura ge replace with support auras rather than stats auras.
2 of those are situational and 1 is k and maybe just ap aura need a check.