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[PTS] Feedback on Rune Priest / Zealot changes

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[PTS] Feedback on Rune Priest / Zealot changes

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2024 8:47 pm
by Omegus
Copied from the PTS patch-notes thread.

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- Sundered Motion - Slow duration reduced from 10 to 5 seconds.
- On Your Feet - Reworked into: Rune of Life and Rune of Sanctuary now resurrect players with 50% of their maximum health.
- Thick-Skulled - Now additionally prevents Rune of Restoration from being set back while casting.
- Cleansing Vitality - Healing Bonus Scaling increased from 0.38 to 1.5.
Spoiler:
I don't play RP I'm not sure these buffs will make the tactics worth taking.
- Rune of Striking - Base damage increased from 299 to 399.
- Scourge - Base damage increased from 299 to 399.
- Rune of Immolation - Base damage increased from 131 to 162.
- Warp Reality - Base damage increased from 131 to 162.
Spoiler:
Nothing controversial here, very nice.
- Rune of Binding - Damage Bonus scaling increased from 0.5 to 1.5.
- Rune of Cleaving - Damage Bonus scaling reduced from 1.0 to 0.6. Cooldown reduced from 10 to 5 seconds.
Spoiler:
Mirroring the abilities, fair enough (we'll get back to Rune of Cleaving soon...)
- Rune of Nullification - Heal debuff increased from 30% to 35%.
- Changer’s Touch - Heal debuff increased from 30% to 35%.
- Rune of Nullification: Duration increased from 5s to 7s.
- Changer’s Touch: Duration increased from 5s to 7s.
Spoiler:
This might be what is needed to finally make the heal debuff tactic worthwhile again, especially on destro where it competed with the Chosen's passive 25% incoming healing reduction aura. Will need testing to be sure if the extra 10% is worth it.
- Boon of Tzeentch - Cooldown removed.
Spoiler:
Something has gotten out of sync, potentially unintentionally? In 1.4.8 this and Rune of Fortune had some bigger differences even though both were at 9 points in the left mastery path:

Boon of Tzeentch: 5s cooldown, healed for 150% of the damage dealt
Rune of Fortune: 0s cooldown, healed for 100% of the damage dealt

ROR kept these differences, but it seems that somehow (during the ability?) rework Rune of Fortune somehow ended up as being an ability with 0s cooldown and 150% lifetap healing. This has now been mirrored to Boon of Tzeentch so now both have a 0s cooldown and 150% healing, giving them the best of both worlds.

Was this Boon of Tzeentch change based on trying to make it an equal to Rune of Fortune which had likely been accidentally buffed previously? Now both are spammable and heal for a good amount which almost makes them a direct replacement for the core single target spammables of Rune of Striking / Scourge. All 4 abilites have a 2s cast time, no cooldown and a 2x stat scale multiplier. The difference now is that the non-heal debuff version have 50 extra base damage.

If I missed a patch note that changed Rune of Fortune to 150% healing then forgive me, but this change looks like mirroring based on a bug.
- Rune of Fate - Cooldown reduced from 20 to 15 seconds. Amount of damage ticks increased from 7 to 8. Initial tick removed.
- Mirror of Madness - Reworked into: Hex. 35 AP. 100 ft range. Instant. 10s CD. - You deal (5 * (198+0.9*DB)) Corporeal damage to your target over 15 seconds and your defensive target is healed for 150% of the damage done.
Spoiler:
So the Zealot's anti-heal proc ability is gone which I have no problems with at it was very niche and now it seems both the RP and the Zealot have a lifetap DoT in that spot:

Zealot: 15s duration, 10s cooldown
Rune Priest: 24s duration, 15s cooldown

Not sure how I feel about this and I think it might be starting to step on the toes of the AM/Shaman. Those classes are known as the lifetap DoT classes and Zealot/RP is more focused on direct damage, but now both the Zealot/RP have a lifetap DoT, and it now has much higher uptime on multiple targets than before. This seems like a slight loss of identity for the Rune Priest and a larger loss of identity for the Zealot.
- Protection of the Ancestors - Now Core Ability.
- Daemonic Fortitude - Now Core Ability.
Spoiler:
Fine, although doesn't fix the horrible uptime for a single target wounds buff compared to the uptime of group wounds buffs. At least it's now always at rank 40 strength. A shorter duration and a much shorter cooldown would make the ability far more interesting to use in my opinion.
- Oath Rune of Iron - Active effect reworked into: No cost. 60s cd. Instant cast. Cleanse one curse, one ailment, and one hex from yourself.
- Mark of the Spell Destroyer active effect reworked into - No cost. 60s cd. Instant cast. Cleanse one curse, one ailment, and one hex from yourself.
Spoiler:
Very useful (too useful?) and a Zealot can let group members do it every 30s instead of 60s if it equips a tactic. At first I thought this just removed a single effect but it's one curse AND one ailment AND one hex, so it removes 3. First thing that came to mind is that it will make snares even easier to remove on someone who is trying to escape and gets tagged by a random snare. There are lots of complaints about the "ranged meta" and this gives the ranged classes the ability to purge movement-affecting CC from themselves.

It also means that now the Zealot and Rune Priest are - indirectly - capable of removing all 3 types of debuffs where-as healers were typically limited to just two out of the 3.

The ability doesn't fit the theme of the path which is supposed to be longer-ranged over-time effects.

Finally, this new active effect cannot scale up with the mastery path points which seems slightly counter-intuitive for a mastery ability (I know the heal debuff tactic doesn't scale either, that too is a weird one).
- Oath Rune of Power - Active effect reworked into: No cost. 60s cd. Instant cast. On your next attack you deal an additional (5 * 125) Elemental damage over 5 seconds and reduce the victim’s run speed by 20%. (Effect scales with points in Path of Grugni).
- Mark of Daemonic Fury active effect reworked into - No cost. 60s cd. Instant cast. Deal an additional x damage on your 5 next attacks within 10 seconds. This ability cannot proc more than once per second. (Base damage 187, scaling 0). (Damage scales of Path of Witchcraft)
Spoiler:
Update: I got my paths mixed up. Rune of Power / Daemonic Fury are in the long-range instant effect path, but their active ability gives an effect that works over time?!?

I have concerns with just how many snares the Rune Priest is ending up with. Originally in 1.4.8 it just had the Immolating Grasp tactic that causes the basic DoT ability to have a chance of proccing a snare. The Zealot had no snares at all. Then, on ROR a decision was made to give the Zealot a snare by adding it to Storm of Ravens (2017 or 2018?). This was to mirror the channelled snare on the Bright Wizard (immolating heat). This was NOT mirrored to the Rune Priest as it already had snare procs. At some unknown time after this, somehow the Rune Priest ended up getting a snare added to Rune of Burning. To this day I have never found the patch notes for it and I believe it to be a bug and the Rune Priest ended up with 2 snares. Now it has been given an ability which gives it access to a third ranged snare, which it can also hand out to everyone else in the group. I think the snare situation on the RP is now getting a bit out of hand as it can now channel snares, proc snares of DoTs and gets a guaranteed snare off any ability.

I would like to know how Oath Rune of Power works with AoEs. Will everyone hit get snared or just 1 person. If it's just 1 person, how is that person determined? Are the rules different for targeted AoEs, GTAoEs and PBAoEs?

The Zealot version is a damage proc for 5 attacks and with the tactic this can have a 33% uptime (cooldown reduced to 30s). I'm not sure how strong the damage procs will end up being, that will require real-life experience. Much like Oath Rune of Power, how does this interact with AOEs? Is the ICD per-target or per-rune-user? If it's per-target does that mean one meaty AOE will consume all 5 procs at once? How do the targets get chosen for it? etc etc.

Also, does the base damage scale based on how many points in Valaya/Witchcraft the RP/Zealot has, or how many points the person who is using the rune/mark has?
- Oath Rune of Warding - Active effect reworked into: No cost. 60s cd. Instant cast. Shield yourself, absorbing 1162 damage over 10 seconds. (Effect scales with points in Path of Grimnir).
- Mark of the Vortex active effect reworked into - No cost. 60s cd. Instant cast. Reduce your damage taken by 50% for 3 seconds. This does not stack with Detaunt.
Spoiler:
The theme of the mastery path was area of effect abilities and these do not seem to match the theme. Also, Mark of the Vortex is an effect that cannot scale with mastery points.

For Oath Rune of Warding: is 1162 the rank 40 version (15 mastery) or the rank 25 (0 mastery)? Does it scale based on the mastery of the Rune Priest who cast it or the person who is activating the buff?

Mark of the Vortex: A panic button for everyone on a 60s cooldown, or 30s with the tactic. I think this will lead to a fair-few arguments and even higher tactic pressure for healing Zealots. It also gives all tanks access to even further damage reduction...
- Empowered Alteration - Now additionally increases the healing of Leaping Alteration by 25%.
Spoiler:
Very nice, although IMO the Zealot is under too much tactic pressure already to make this worth using unless doing some PvE and speccing for maximum AP pump, in which case you were already using this tactic for the AP bonus it provided.
- Swirling Vortex: Reworked into - Reduce the cooldown of your Mark’s granted abilities by 30 seconds.
Spoiler:
This is adding more tactic pressure onto a class that is starved for tactic slots, and is likely going to be one of those that everyone wants the Zealot to take (much like the AP proc tactic) for themselves while the Zealot gets very little personal use out of it.

Also, this tactic is in a mastery path but it affects all of the Marks, including those in other mastery paths. It really needs to be core for this to make sense and a quick fix would be to swap it with Empowered Alteration as that tactic is core but only affects 1 ability in the Dark Rites path.
- Grungni’s Gift - AP cost increased from 15 to 25.
- Flash of Chaos - AP cost increased from 15 to 25.
Spoiler:
Pure bias means I don't like it, but since the AP regen changes with good gear you can basically spam this forever so it's probably for the best.
- Rune of Might - Cooldown removed. AP cost reduced from 40 to 35 AP.
- Rite of Agony - Cooldown removed. AP cost reduced from 40 to 35 AP.
Spoiler:
Never thought I would see the day that RP/Zealot got a spammable PBAoE as a baseline ability but here we go. I am very VERY happy with it, still not sure it should be baseline though. This now frees both classes up from being forced to pair with something that provides CD reduction in order to do their PBAoE stuff which is lovely. And to get it for free? With an AP reduction on top? You spoil me.
- Grimnir's Fury - Reworked into: Damaging. 40 AP. Self. 1s Cast. 10s CD. Using the fury of Grimnir you strike all enemies within 25 ft for (200 + 0.86*DB) Elemental damage followed by another (200 + 0.86*DB) Elemental damage after 3 seconds on the same location.
Spoiler:
Are either/both ticks direct damage? If so then this will have very good (too good?) synergy with the lifetap tactic and the heal debuff tactic. I am still lamenting the loss of overlapping damage/procs on the Zealot due to the Winds changes...

The Zealot had 3 potential layers of overlapping damage:

1) Waves of Chaos that turned a ritual into a GTAoE. The damage was utterly terrible and it can't crit and requires you to place a ritual somewhere you likely didn't want to. There was a time on ROR where it was bugged: it could crit and was considered direct damage so it procced everything. Then it was fixed.

2) Wind of Insanity. Great ability and as it was a toggle you could cast other things over the top of it while it was doing damage, such as:

3) Chaotic Agitation. The channelled ranged AOE. You would target the nearest person, pop Winds and then use CA to get overlapping damage.

It was a very short-duration combo but it did nice numbers and was ruined if you got punted. This is now mostly dead for the Zealot and it now has Waves of Chaos (no crit, no proc, still poor damage) and either Winds or CA or Rite of Agony (now spammable) on top.

The Rune Priest had Rune of Battle (15s pulsing aoe DIRECT DAMAGE) that it can put on itself or an ally, and then not much else on top other than Rune of Might on a 5s CD. Now it has triple overlapping damage:

1) Rune of Battle, doing pulsing direct damage for 15 seconds and can be extended to have a 37.5ft radius with a tactic
2) Rune of Might, a spammable PBAoE with a 25ft radius that does direct damage
3) Grimnir's Fury to give you some extra burst over the top. Unknown if it is direct damage, might end up being another 2 bursts of DD on top of Rune of Battle and Rune of Might.

The Zealot has gone from having more overlapping damage to almost none, while the RP has gone from having almost none to having triple overlapping damage with better range.

Yes, this is a Winds rant, and is another side-effect of making it a channel rather than the toggle it originally was. The toggle is what allowed a Zealot to use it to double-dip on direct damage, much like how Rune of Battle being a Blessing is what allows the RP to double/triple dip on direct damage.
- Concussive Runes - Now also reduces Elemental Resistance by 378.
Spoiler:
Demon Spittle + Sweeping Disgorgement now reduces armour and corporal in a 40ft frontal DoT
Rune of Cleaving + Concussive Runes now reduces armour and elemental in a 40ft frontal DoT

Sounds balanced... except there is a second tactic to add in which is Extended Battle. This increases the "area of effect" (actually the radius, not the area) by 50% so now Order can project both the armour debuff and the elemental debuff out to 60ft. This tactic is not mirrored. Extended Battle also increases the radius of Rune of Battle (pulsating direct damage AOE thingy) by 50% so it now has a radius of 37.5ft.

Rune of Battle needs looking at very closely as the Rune Priest is going to be projecting a lot of debuffs/procs significantly further than the Zealot can, with very little to compensate for it. This seems like a lot of power creep.

Buffing Waves of Chaos - i.e. allowing it to crit and be treated as direct damage like the other GTAoE effects are - would help mitigate things but is this then even more power creep?
[15681] - [Zealot/RP] Zealot/RP: Off Sov sets have heal gear
Spoiler:
So this bug fix was fixing the Zealot/RP "DPS" Sovereign sets being almost exact mirrors of the healing version, including having healing stats.

1) The helm/shoulders/chest/back/gloves/boot/belt (7 pieces) of the DPS sovereign set had the same stats as the healing sovereign set. And by same stats I mean it literally had willpower, heal crit, etc on it.
2) The rings were different as expected, and properly different. For example: different AP/s on them. The stat distribution was the same.
3) The set bonuses were different

This has been an issue since the sets were introduced in 2020, and a big thank you to Emissary for changing the healer stats to damage stats. However, I have checked the Zealot set and it seems to be a 1-1 conversion, i.e. what was 20 Willpower has been changed to 20 Intelligence, 2% Heal Crit is now 2% Magic Crit, and the same for healing/magic power.

Due to how the Zealot/RP convert stats, this means that the stats on those 7 pieces are effectively still identical. The stat distribution on the DPS and healing versions of a piece are the same: same toughness, same initiative, same defensive bonuses, same morale bonus, etc, it's just that the stat budget assigned to healing stats is now damage stats.

This is different to how the other sets work where the stat distribution on equal-tier sets is different. Compare the Vanquisher/Onslaught helms and the stats are vastly different, same for all of the other pieces. This means each set is more unique and tailored for its intended role.

Please could you do another pass over the off-sovereign sets to make the stat distribution more suited for DPS builds, i.e. disrupt strike through over morale, potentially some more AP regen (healers get AP on tap), etc? Currently it feels like the bug has technically been fixed but the issue of "identical" stat distribution remains the same.

Re: [PTS] Feedback on Rune Priest / Zealot changes

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2024 9:01 pm
by Omegus
Forgot to mention: as Rune of Battle is direct damage and can be cast on an ally, surely this means Order get access to a pulsating 37.5ft AOE that can be dumped on a tank that triggers the 35% heal debuff tactic on everyone it crits on? It can put it on an ally 150ft away.


And while further changes are supposedly coming, so far this patch does nothing to fix the mess of the Zealot's mastery paths when it comes to tactics (generic tactics in mastery, almost mandatory tri-path spec for healing/support tactics, etc) and if anything it makes things worse due to Swirling Vortex.

Re: [PTS] Feedback on Rune Priest / Zealot changes

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2024 7:41 am
by BluIzLucky
Dps RP got big buffs while dps ZL just lost identity changing MoM for a boring DoT. Gratz to solo ZL, I guess....

Also.. My impression is that Concussive Rune with tactic has +400% bigger area than Demon Spittle and this was only okay because ZL had the added Corporeal debuff (and better ST in a party setting), well now both of those ZL advantages are gone and ZL is left far behind RP.

I have both ZL and RP at endgame DPS gear and fact is the gap between them just got even wider with RP's now improved AoE and ZL now diminished niche support DPS role.

And doesn't help that the best healers in game just got even better heal tools (marks/rune buffs).

Re: [PTS] Feedback on Rune Priest / Zealot changes

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2024 8:33 pm
by Omegus
Updates from testing:

1) Mark of Daemonic Fury's ICD is based on the caster, so if you hit 24 people with an AOE then only one person takes the extra damage. This makes it very poor for AoE situations.

2) Oath Rune of Power's DoT/snare applies to everyone hit by an AoE, so order can now project snares over a huuuuuuuuge area. The biggest abuses I can find is on the RP itself with Rune of Battle + tactic (150ft range, 37.5ft radius), and Rune of Cleaving + tactic (60ft frontal cone that snares everyone).

Daemonic Fury might end up being very good for small scale / solo play but it is pretty much useless for cleaving, where-as Oath Rune of Power works at all "sizes" of gameplay and scales very nicely, providing a plethora of new tactical options for Order.

Re: [PTS] Feedback on Rune Priest / Zealot changes

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2024 9:36 pm
by Omegus
Further update: it seems I was slightly wrong about Waves of Chaos (turns rituals into a GTAoE) as it is now classified as direct damage so it can proc Transference. However, it cannot proc the heal debuff tactic (unlike the 3 PBAoE Rune Priest abilities that can overlap) as it cannot crit.

To restore some of the double-overlapping procs/damage the Zealot was capable in the past, please consider allowing Waves of Chaos to crit, even if the base damage has to be lowered to compensate for it. This will give the Zealot two sources of procs (ritual and regular PBAoE) which can be put in 2 different locations, in a similar-but-different way that the Rune Priest can put Rune of Battle on an ally for direct-and-critting damage in one location and then PBAoEs on itself for more direct-and-critting damage.

Re: [PTS] Feedback on Rune Priest / Zealot changes

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2024 7:31 am
by Ruin
Wait, Did healing tactics received a main stat bonus co-efficiency?
So now tactics like cleansing vitality and drink deeply benefit from Willpower and can they crit?

Re: [PTS] Feedback on Rune Priest / Zealot changes

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2024 5:13 pm
by diegomess
healing was already op in this game and runies never die, and they buff heals even more? im going crazy, going nuts, can we nerf detaunt?

Re: [PTS] Feedback on Rune Priest / Zealot changes

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2024 8:25 pm
by Ruin
Ooo cmon they are trying to make a usless tactic be used by some1.
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