Pet, bugs, endless problem, and gameplay WLs

[Barracuuda]

Good afternoon, everyone.
And a real thank you to the developers for the pleasure of playing this game

I rarely write on the forum, although I play a lot. I want to raise a very painful topic (specifically related to one class in the game White lion) on problems related to its pet.
I've been playing lion for a very long time and I've seen a lot of changes, both positive and not so much. I want to say at the beginning that I have conducted a lot of tests and measurements with this class, and I really like to play with this class and attach a lot of importance to "controlling the pet in manual mode". But at this stage, playing on WL (in certain builds) has turned into some kind of unimaginable unplayable process.
No matter how it may seem to players playing other classes or similar that it is not worth attention. But I will say that on the contrary, that WL (and I think SH too) has one of the key mechanics / tools of the class on the basis of which the gameplay is based and most importantly Build.

The worst thing is that the MAIN (very significant) skills are tied to PET - these are ALL controls (knockdown, silence), other important skills Flech (pull), one of the coolest tactics in the game (+50% dmg crit), other tactics +50% move speed PET (at the moment, this is a controversial tactic, it spends an important and expensive slot, and its action is currently completely shrouded in bugs).

Given that this is a PVP game, controls are of paramount importance when building a proper battle, skill rotation, switch Focus damage, etc.
Everyone who is involved in the game a little more than the rest, as well as those who play solo /SmollScale/ 6v6/ ranked /and 24v24 too will understand what it is about and support me, I could give and give detailed examples (but it will take a lot of text)

My main thought is that. That the class in this case is WL (this is a DD class, in standard DD builds it is very susceptible to incoming damage) even with full MANUAL control of the Pet, it turns out to depend on essentially random factors, bugs, exploits (as the game wants) and not on the player's ability to play this class well. Where Pet does everything he wants, but NOT what he needs.
And in a hot good fight with these breakdowns, a huge concentration of attention is required, how to monitor the course of combat and constantly monitor your pet, which can simply disappear (just like that, sent the pet to the target and he ran in the other direction and disappeared- as an example)

Take into account that this is a MELEE class, and he is 99% percent fighting on the front line and therefore receives the full range of incoming damage.
Therefore, I did not look at the SH problems so closely since it is the rdps and on the back line leading the fight\There is time for a break. He has a chance to make a mistake.,in a battle where fractions of a second are decided, MELEE dd does not have such a chance.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

In conclusion, I want to say, Please solve the problem of PETs, do not deprive players of a variety of builds and the use of this class in various situations.
Do not passively set the bar for limiting the class and professionalism of the players, reducing everything to the only playable and primitive gameplay
(POUNCE + Whirling AXE) of this still outstanding class.

Thanks for your attention and understanding, I tried to put it briefly, so many parties and other classes with pets were not affected.

PS problems ( pet runs away, no matter what passive/ active mode it is in, pet slows down to a complete stop when approaching 2-5 feet to the target, pet got tangled in 3 trees, it's funny but the fact is, I was killed because I spent important gkd on the ability that I used pet, tactics bug +50% speed movement?, and much more.) maybe then remove the dependence on the availability of pet skills?(knock/silence/flash/50%crit damage) this is an option if the problems with the pet cannot be fixed technically.

[Stinksuit]

Maybe I missed it since long post but pets also has this (bug?) these days when they will pretty much ignore stealth as long as the player has some dot on the wh/we. I agree with you 100% that the pets being buggy as heck is very annoying. I hope devs are able to fix both lion and squig in the dps patch.

[Aluviya]

At this point, I strongly believe that pet classes require a complete redesign or that the pathfinding system for pets needs to be recoded. Currently, pets behave like mindless NPCs that can easily be outmaneuvered by minor obstacles, causing them to take unnecessarily long routes to reach their targets. I find that there's a significant disparity between Squig Pets, which are mostly ranged, and White Lion Pets, which are strictly melee. The White Lion pet specifically struggles with obstacles on the way, usually failing to assist the target or dying in the melee blob pretty quickly as it can't be targeted properly by the healers in the group due to issues with the in-game built-in targeting system.

Despite the Squig Herder being considered one of the strongest RDPS classes in the game, even the ranged pet often mindlessly charges into melee combat and dies quickly, highlighting the need for significant improvement in pet AI and mechanics. I understand that suggesting a complete redesign may not be popular, but I've considered proposing that pet classes become purely visual, with the pet serving as a cosmetic companion rather than an active combatant. Alternatively, pets could be made activateable only on certain abilities, and most of the currently existing abilities could be fused together so that a White Lion attack automatically triggers a pet attack if the pet is still alive.

While this approach might result in White Lions losing some class depth, only a few people can truly utilize this class to its full potential due to the significant micromanagement involved (similar to Ironbreakers) - everyone else is essentially playing with a pet addon.

[MedV]

WL gameplay using the pet is almost unplayable at the moment.

Would be happy just making the 50% crit tactic apply even if the pet it dead. This would make it so your damage isn’t ruined when the pet inevitably dies to random aoe or despawns. Make the tactic unusable if Loner tactic is in place so you can’t use it in the aoe build.

Then make the KD not associated with the pet.

Good enough for me.

[Barracuuda]

At this point, I strongly believe that pet classes require a complete redesign or that the pathfinding system for pets needs to be recoded. Currently, pets behave like mindless NPCs that can easily be outmaneuvered by minor obstacles, causing them to take unnecessarily long routes to reach their targets. I find that there's a significant disparity between Squig Pets, which are mostly ranged, and White Lion Pets, which are strictly melee. The White Lion pet specifically struggles with obstacles on the way, usually failing to assist the target or dying in the melee blob pretty quickly as it can't be targeted properly by the healers in the group due to issues with the in-game built-in targeting system.

Despite the Squig Herder being considered one of the strongest RDPS classes in the game, even the ranged pet often mindlessly charges into melee combat and dies quickly, highlighting the need for significant improvement in pet AI and mechanics. I understand that suggesting a complete redesign may not be popular, but I've considered proposing that pet classes become purely visual, with the pet serving as a cosmetic companion rather than an active combatant. Alternatively, pets could be made activateable only on certain abilities, and most of the currently existing abilities could be fused together so that a White Lion attack automatically triggers a pet attack if the pet is still alive.

While this approach might result in White Lions losing some class depth, only a few people can truly utilize this class to its full potential due to the significant micromanagement involved (similar to Ironbreakers) - everyone else is essentially playing with a pet addon.

Thanks for the support, these words are especially valuable from you, knowing you as an old and experienced WHO/ror resident.
That's exactly what I wanted to highlight, that maybe then it's worth untying vital abilities from the pet (silence/knockdown/pull).
Although I'm not a big supporter of such a redesign, everything was quite good quite recently, before making these changes with route search, maybe it's worth just returning everything as it was before?
Than to deprive the class of truly both broad opportunities and a more interesting and diverse style of play, giving the pet a purely cosmetic value.

[akisnaakkeli]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8zvFSdIsF4 This is my dps dok video from 2017 and the game srsly worked better, and you can see it from all Wl pets in the video.

[Phantasm]

Whats the problem with having squigs and lions as cosmetic pets and all CC/buffs depended on them changed to normal skills/tactics.

[Aluviya]

At this point, I strongly believe that pet classes require a complete redesign or that the pathfinding system for pets needs to be recoded. Currently, pets behave like mindless NPCs that can easily be outmaneuvered by minor obstacles, causing them to take unnecessarily long routes to reach their targets. I find that there's a significant disparity between Squig Pets, which are mostly ranged, and White Lion Pets, which are strictly melee. The White Lion pet specifically struggles with obstacles on the way, usually failing to assist the target or dying in the melee blob pretty quickly as it can't be targeted properly by the healers in the group due to issues with the in-game built-in targeting system.

Despite the Squig Herder being considered one of the strongest RDPS classes in the game, even the ranged pet often mindlessly charges into melee combat and dies quickly, highlighting the need for significant improvement in pet AI and mechanics. I understand that suggesting a complete redesign may not be popular, but I've considered proposing that pet classes become purely visual, with the pet serving as a cosmetic companion rather than an active combatant. Alternatively, pets could be made activateable only on certain abilities, and most of the currently existing abilities could be fused together so that a White Lion attack automatically triggers a pet attack if the pet is still alive.

While this approach might result in White Lions losing some class depth, only a few people can truly utilize this class to its full potential due to the significant micromanagement involved (similar to Ironbreakers) - everyone else is essentially playing with a pet addon.

Thanks for the support, these words are especially valuable from you, knowing you as an old and experienced WHO/ror resident.
That's exactly what I wanted to highlight, that maybe then it's worth untying vital abilities from the pet (silence/knockdown/pull).
Although I'm not a big supporter of such a redesign, everything was quite good quite recently, before making these changes with route search, maybe it's worth just returning everything as it was before?
Than to deprive the class of truly both broad opportunities and a more interesting and diverse style of play, giving the pet a purely cosmetic value.

Thanks for the kind words.

Regarding pathfinding, it's been an ongoing issue for years, and there may be limitations within the game's environment that prevent it from ever working properly. This skepticism makes it challenging to foresee any successful implementation while pets remain bound to pathfinding.

Considering the visual aspect of pets, here are some major thoughts behind suggesting making pets purely visual:

• The game's strength lies in the depth of its classes, surpassing that of similar games in the genre. However, excessive micromanagement, from inventory to managing numerous abilities, poses a barrier for beginners. Streamlining gameplay by consolidating several abilities would make the game more accessible and less intimidating for newcomers. As a veteran player, I agree that appealing to both nostalgic and younger players is crucial.

• Pets play a strategic role for White Lions, allowing for attacks and crowd control while kiting, among other tactics. Yet, past issues with broken pathfinding, like pets pulling players from keep walls or attacking through walls (as seen with Squig Herders), have caused complications. Limiting pets to visual companions or allowing them to attack only on command may be the most practical solutions.

• In competitive 6 vs 6 scenarios, maintaining the pet's survival is essential for Order compositions involving White Lions. However, White Lions with specs reliant on the pet's presence have become niche due to their high downtime or short uptime of the pet. Nonetheless, the issue extends beyond White Lions themselves, as other melee DPS classes often outperform them. Another aspect contributing to this challenge is the targeting system of the game, particularly from the healer's perspective in intense fights, where it becomes difficult to mouse-click a pet. Additionally, the in-game command for picking up another group member's pet simply doesn't work (here again we have the issue of micromanagement that goes beyond...).

• Furthermore, pets pose challenges for other classes, such as Magus and Engineer, which have historically been some of the most stationary classes. While some classes should focus on pet-related mechanics, in a game where mobility is essential, limiting classes to a stationary position without significant advantages seems niche. Engineers, for example, experience high downtime for abilities to teleport the pet to them, making their gameplay less dynamic compared to other ranged DPS classes. While the playstyle of sitting in one position and sniping people from afar may appeal to some players, it offers limited, stagnant gameplay that is only enjoyable in certain circumstances, such as with good company on Discord.

The points above lead me to believe that making pets purely visual or non-targetable NPCs with different boundaries might be the only solution for pet classes to avoid being stationary or heavily dependent on the battlefield or composition they are in. However, perhaps there are better ideas out there on how to fix the issue. It's clear that allowing pets to be unbound from pathfinding would result in a broken state again, but keeping them within the boundaries renders classes such as WL somewhat useless and niche especially in small scale PvP.

[Barracuuda]

However, perhaps there are better ideas out there on how to fix the issue. It's clear that allowing pets to be unbound from pathfinding would result in a broken state again, but keeping them within the boundaries renders classes such as WL somewhat useless and niche especially in small scale PvP.

I agree with the above written in large part, and the latter too, but still I think that the solution to this issue is by replacing the game pet with a cosmetic one, if you can say so, "cut off the balls" completely, to a unique game class.
I am against this approach.
Well, for the sake of one (players) (Pet's passage through the wall, - in fact, it's a trifle) we got a "ONE-Armed" Character, and we're trying to cure him by cutting off His HANDS completely in general) - this is a metaphor, but in fact it looks exactly like that.

In general, I would like more people who are interested and play this class more than average to also speak out, perhaps this will turn the problem for the better. it is important for game

[mekal]

war/ror has some of the worst terrain maps i have ever seen getting stuck on 2 inch pebble is super common pets pathfinding will never be what you expect so gonna have to agree here

pet classes need rework