Keep Lord Aggro Problem - Buff Menace, Tanking NPCs in RvR

[Ysaran]

100% Sign
I went hard on BS the last few days with my BG to get Bloodlord.
Heal Aggro was just sometimes a problem but oh boy our Chopa went hard.
With double guard and Detaunt from his side, not a single chance to get a boss off of him if he crits well. Taunts apparently dont work as i'd image, because they sometimes just "dont work"?

We had the Aggro discussion in Discord as well - one asked "why does a healer NEED to equip the less Aggro Tactic in PvE anyways?" my answer was "Well Tanks have to so as well!"
But i did not think of the RvR Lord aggro thing, because i'm mostly outside and keep fending people off.

So yeah, adding this to the Tome Slot seems like a nice middleground "to just have it there" and forget about it

Detaunt is brocken by direct damage. DPS detaunting and then keeping attacking is pointless. Guard don't stack, so double guard is also pointless.

I don't want to be the guy that says "Git Gud", but I haven't had any problem running dungeons lately. So maybe it is a player related problem?

For the keep lord I agree that they are unmanageble sometimes, but I can't really say why. So many ppl hitting the same target are going to make a mess of the aggro and the boss can switch target only so many times in a second, I assume

[nAyu]

I want to "git gud", but there is only so much i can do for 4 weeks of playing after 14 years of not playing *shrug*

[Ysaran]

You are doing fine. This game is the less user-friendly game I've ever seen. The base interface is trash, most mechanics are never explained (like that skills don't stack with other skills, but only with tactics and morals), the correlation between stats and damage, and so on... Just keep playing and reading the forum and you will learn

[Emissary]

The secret I have found to be helpful in the dungeons since the ability change has been to guard the best healer in the group. I will switch guard constantly to keep myself at the top of the aggro table (you must use the addon aggrometer, everyone). When it comes to pulling the boss what your healers and your dps (all the ones that you are not guarding) need to do, is to just not doing anything for 5 seconds which will boost you up on the aggro table quicker to hopefully keep you there. I have one healer slot subtlety and the other not. Detaunt is your friend, it will literally take at least a quarter of your threat away when it is used (i do not have the science of this number, but detaunt takes more off than you most likely think).

However, in keep/fort fights it’s just like herding cats. When you have 168 players it does not matter if you have an entire 24 man with all 8 tanks slotting menace. Nothing is stopping the other 144 possible one fourth of them being healers from pulling aggro.

I have zero idea what the discussion is on this so i can say with just my opinion and my opinion only.

I can handle pve aggro by changing up mine and my healer’s gameplay. On live it was just the same, dps had to spec their subtlety tactic, healers had to slot subtlety and you just kept guard on the one dps that did not slot it. It worked flawlessly every dungeon (for the most part). I think the healing aggro generation has to be more than it was on live or the menace/threat generation from tanks is less, one or the other (on this server, I mean).

Pve i can work around, with good tactics and a competent group. Teaching everyone to:

1. Download aggrometer
2. Stop fighting
3. Wait until they get out of combat
4. All 168-slot subtlety or menace
5. Only the one tank that is tanking the lord use challenge or taunt
6. All healers detaunt on CD
7. All DPS detaunt on CD (except the one that is guarded by the tank that is holding aggro)
8. Continue to fight the Lord

Is like trying to hold water in your hands.

[Dobzse]

The secret I have found to be helpful in the dungeons since the ability change has been to actually guard the best healer in the group. I will switch guard constantly to keep myself at the top of the aggro table (you must use the addon aggrometer, everyone). When it comes to pulling the boss what your healers and your dps (all the ones that you are not guarding) need to do, is to just not doing anything for 5 seconds which will boost you up on the aggro table quicker to hopefully keep you there. I have one healer slot subetly and the other not.

However in keep/fort fights its just like herding cats. When you have 168 players it does not matter if you have an entire 24 man with all 8 tanks slotting menace. Nothing is stopping the other 144 possible one fourth of them being healers from pulling aggro.

I have zero idea what the discussion is on this so i can say with just my opinion and my opinion only.

I can handle pve aggro by changing up mine and my healers gameplay. On live it was just the same, dps had to spec thier subetly tactic, healers had to slot subetly and you just kept guard on the one dps that did not slot it. It worked flawlessly every dungeon (for the most part). I think the healing aggro generation has to be more than it was on live or the menace/threat generation from tanks is less, one or the other (on this server, I mean).

Pve i can work around; with good tactics and a competent group. Teaching everyone to:

1. Download aggrometer
2. Stop fighting
3. Wait until they get out of combat
4. All 168 slot subetly or menace
5. Only the one tank that is tanking the lord use challenge or taunt
6. All healers detaunt on CD
7. All DPS detaunt on CD (except the one that is guarded by the tank that is holding aggro)
8. Continue to fight the Lord

Is like trying to hold water in your hands.

Thank you for sharing this with us.

[Emissary]

I want to "git gud", but there is only so much i can do for 4 weeks of playing after 14 years of not playing *shrug*

You are fighting the right fight. Thank you for coming back to the game and playing a tank class, which sadly is one of the least played archetypes in the game due to the importance and utility of the class. We get all the tools just none of the glamour and I am okay with that. I think by your statement you are too.

Welcome Back!!!

edit:
On a sidenote I just seen that you used double guard.

Remember like the previous poster said that does no good.

However, what you may not realize is that actually hurts you worse as the other tank is taking part of that threat away from you that the choppa was giving you. It works the same if your other tank guards you; he is taking threat away from you. So your off tank should always be guarding the second person on the aggro table; while you guard the top dps or healer on the aggro table (if you are main tank). Your off tank should only switch guard to you if he knows you are about to get a large burst damage or the healer's can not keep up with the damage you are taking. It should only be brief though and he/she should move their guard back to their previous guarded target.

[sullemunk]

I have also noticed that on lords, a lot of tanks are running the taunt procc gear (conquer, vanquish?) So they get forced aggro for 4 sec, pulling it off the main tank.

[bw10]

You are doing fine. This game is the less user-friendly game I've ever seen. The base interface is trash, most mechanics are never explained (like that skills don't stack with other skills, but only with tactics and morals), the correlation between stats and damage, and so on... Just keep playing and reading the forum and you will learn

And thats not mentioning the whole rvr mechanics and meta. It took my months on my first main to actually learn how to play rvr

[Emissary]

I have also noticed that on lords, a lot of tanks are running the taunt procc gear (conquer, vanquish?) So they get forced aggro for 4 sec, pulling it off the main tank.

We had that problem before the ability rework, however now taunt works as an automatic aggro gain because no matter where you are in the aggro table taunt will pull for a min of 3 seconds to whatever tank is taunting or wearing the taunt gear. So the lord looks like a pinball machine.

[akisnaakkeli]

I have also noticed that on lords, a lot of tanks are running the taunt procc gear (conquer, vanquish?) So they get forced aggro for 4 sec, pulling it off the main tank.

We had that problem before the ability rework, however now taunt works as an automatic aggro gain because no matter where you are in the aggro table taunt will pull for a min of 3 seconds to whatever tank is taunting or wearing the taunt gear. So the lord looks like a pinball machine.

Tank Dominator Taunt Proc is bugged after rework. It used to have taunt icon appear on target that said 30% dmg buff disappears after 3 hits like taunt does. However atm it gives tank itself the Icon and doesnt add dmg, but it does interrupt and that is imo too OP to have it interrupt every time it procs because no ICD. Dunno if its on bugtracker but it doesnt work as 30% dmg increase like it should and it purposefully doesnt interrupt because it was deemed too OP.