For the love of god give WH a snare

[Faction69]

Somewhere in that wall of text we discovered that WE actually have a snare... It was added becouse.... No one knows actually. But now when WH ask for it all experts with microscopes redalerting. And im the lord of bias and John Snow here.....

I'm all for WH getting the WE snare opener. But once you use it, you'll still be asking for another snare, because it's very bad. Does it snare? Yes. Does it put you where your target was when you started the jump, meaning that if they are moving then by the time it hits you are already out of melee range? Also yes.

[Stinksuit]

Sw can still quite easily kite WE, if they use their cc properly.

Devs are working on that, atm, your ranged kd its the st snare at the same time. You want to use your ranged snare and save your ranged kd for enemy's charge? No, you can't do that now, it's unfair! Oh, and don't forget to enjoy new snare rework! Juggernaut buff! Yes, you are still somewhat able to kite, assuming you are slotted the right tactic. No right tactic? Too bad.

I'm sure there will be some changes which gonna place SW in even more laughable position - like, for example, future healer rework which can make dps healers better than dps (its already somewhat true with SW and dps AM...at least for roaming).

Cant really say what is the correct play to counter since I have yet to experience any of these match ups from sw pov. I'm just saying that proper cc management you can still fairly easily kite we's. And talking about having to spec into certain tactics. I dont think that's an issue tbh. If you want to be kiting sw you'd want to spec into movement speed tactic(?) atleast thats how I would imagine and sw is not the only class that needs to spec specific way against specific match ups.

[Hazmy]

Had to moderate some more comments recently as the posts were heavily moving away from the original Topic and the intention of giving Balance Suggestions - If you have nothing more to say on the Topic itself, move on instead of de-railing the Thread or engaging in off-topic arguments and behavior not fit for the Suggestions & Feedback Section.


If the Topic has exhausted most constructive ideas from the community, it will be locked and stored for the Balance Team.

[Avernus]

Cant really say what is the correct play to counter since I have yet to experience any of these match ups from sw pov. I'm just saying that proper cc management you can still fairly easily kite we's. And talking about having to spec into certain tactics. I dont think that's an issue tbh. If you want to be kiting sw you'd want to spec into movement speed tactic(?) atleast thats how I would imagine and sw is not the only class that needs to spec specific way against specific match ups.

The point is - SH has his kiting/survival toolkit in the form of abilities so he is always ready to kite (except for mSH). At the same time, your tools as SW are more limited and your speed buff is tied to this crucial tactic which you are usually can't afford - unless you are willing to sacrifice some damage.

Back to the main question - i think that melee snare for WH/WE is complete nosence because it will be super hard to kite them/run away from them - unless you are shaman - but i thing that its the shaman who supposed to be toned down, not WH/WE.

[Ysaran]

Cant really say what is the correct play to counter since I have yet to experience any of these match ups from sw pov. I'm just saying that proper cc management you can still fairly easily kite we's. And talking about having to spec into certain tactics. I dont think that's an issue tbh. If you want to be kiting sw you'd want to spec into movement speed tactic(?) atleast thats how I would imagine and sw is not the only class that needs to spec specific way against specific match ups.

The point is - SH has his kiting/survival toolkit in the form of abilities so he is always ready to kite (except for mSH). At the same time, your tools as SW are more limited and your speed buff is tied to this crucial tactic which you are usually can't afford - unless you are willing to sacrifice some damage.

Back to the main question - i think that melee snare for WH/WE is complete nosence because it will be super hard to kite them/run away from them - unless you are shaman - but i thing that its the shaman who supposed to be toned down, not WH/WE.

I know it is offtopic but I'm curious. Why do you think shaman should be toned down? And how?

[Avernus]

I know it is offtopic but I'm curious. Why do you think shaman should be toned down? And how?

Because in case of shaman the "i just walk away from you and i don't care about your snares" situation happens too often. Btw, absolutely disgusting thing in roaming (unless you are glass cannon shaman). How do you fix this? I'll be honest - atm i don't know.

[Ysaran]

I know it is offtopic but I'm curious. Why do you think shaman should be toned down? And how?

Because in case of shaman the "i just walk away from you and i don't care about your snares" situation happens too often. Btw, absolutely disgusting thing in roaming (unless you are glass cannon shaman). How do you fix this? I'll be honest - atm i don't know.

I get your point, but I don't agree. The only thing that in which shaman is better than DoK/Zeal is kiting. If you take that away, why should anyone even bother playing the class? Also notice that it is not simply "walking away" but "kiting" and it requires personal skill, like using puddle and punt at the right moment, especially after the change to the firing cone.

Also not every class should be able to kill any other class. For example AM is hard counter to DPS shaman. Unless the AM does some pretty stupid error it is impossible to kill an AM. Yet no shaman is complaining about the unfairness of AM. Same goes for WL. How do you kite something that has pull, pounce, snare and charge?

[salazarn]

I know it is offtopic but I'm curious. Why do you think shaman should be toned down? And how?

Because in case of shaman the "i just walk away from you and i don't care about your snares" situation happens too often. Btw, absolutely disgusting thing in roaming (unless you are glass cannon shaman). How do you fix this? I'll be honest - atm i don't know.

I get your point, but I don't agree. The only thing that in which shaman is better than DoK/Zeal is kiting. If you take that away, why should anyone even bother playing the class? Also notice that it is not simply "walking away" but "kiting" and it requires personal skill, like using puddle and punt at the right moment, especially after the change to the firing cone.

Also not every class should be able to kill any other class. For example AM is hard counter to DPS shaman. Unless the AM does some pretty stupid error it is impossible to kill an AM. Yet no shaman is complaining about the unfairness of AM. Same goes for WL. How do you kite something that has pull, pounce, snare and charge?

I would say 75% of the reason I started this thread was shaman. They are just head and shoulders the most obnoxious class to face while roaming. I would also say they are clearly op for it

[Stinksuit]

Cant really say what is the correct play to counter since I have yet to experience any of these match ups from sw pov. I'm just saying that proper cc management you can still fairly easily kite we's. And talking about having to spec into certain tactics. I dont think that's an issue tbh. If you want to be kiting sw you'd want to spec into movement speed tactic(?) atleast thats how I would imagine and sw is not the only class that needs to spec specific way against specific match ups.

The point is - SH has his kiting/survival toolkit in the form of abilities so he is always ready to kite (except for mSH). At the same time, your tools as SW are more limited and your speed buff is tied to this crucial tactic which you are usually can't afford - unless you are willing to sacrifice some damage.

Back to the main question - i think that melee snare for WH/WE is complete nosence because it will be super hard to kite them/run away from them - unless you are shaman - but i thing that its the shaman who supposed to be toned down, not WH/WE.

I do agree sh kit is very strong for kiting and trade off ofc is weakness in defensive stats. I 100% agree we/wh does not need melee snare. About nerfing sham/am I guess we will see how they'll be after the patches to off specs ( personally I think they're a bit overtuned) but again same with sw I cannot speak from own experience just from what I've seen.

[Kromdar]

I have been reading almost every post in this thread for the past hour, and its mindblowing how ppl have the nerve to defend Destruction careers, and WEs especially. WE is the one and only class that everyone on Order fears the most, while a Destro is laughing when they see a WH. That is all you really need to notice the difference between those two. As for the rest of the Destruction careers, we have to look no further than the systematic nerfs on Order side and the buffs/addition of new skills on some Destro careers, (Choppa being the latest in a long line of abominations), to really see what is going on.
I saw a comment about Rampage somewhere, and it is a perfect example. I agree that the 100% was way over the top, needed a nerf, but not the nerf it got. Taking it down to 50% would be just what the doctor ordered, no other change, not off the GCD and not 20%, because thats useless and that takes Slayers out of WB plays. Thats what im talking about. I get it, Staff play Destro, and they like to win, whatever, but this design is mediocre at best. At least when you get on here, have some actual arguements to make, you know, valid ones. WH is the laughing stock of Order no matter from which angle you tackle it, joined recently by our dearly departed Slayers. Just please dont defend Destruction careers, just take your buffs, smile and play the game, it favors you.