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Wp / DoK heal proc and sustain
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 5:45 am
by Loans
So I've been wondering for a while why this has been changed:
Why this has been changed and why sometimes this game wants to bring back the AoR mechanics but sometimes a mix of the two games? On live server we had "On heal" but here on RoR "On casting heal", of course "on heal" is much better and enjoinable also makes the gameplay smoother since now wp and dok can't really be a front line healer as book/chalice without perma aoe detaunt up (5 seconds is a joke since you have also waste a tactic slot) and that's ok but at least give them something. If I play a rp for example I can run around and spam heal no stop without worrying about AP.
Another thing is the sov ability. originally was insta 120 resource when "on casting heal" patch, then nerfed to 90 with the "on heal" patch, then now back to "on casting heal" but still at 90 resources.
The 10 resources from book/chalice is useful mostly at low level but then you won't notice the difference compared to 8 that was previously.
I used to enjoy a lot dok/wp with the "on heal" patch but now that wp doesn't have sustain, ranged snare, aoe detaunt IMO it's a bad healer class.
It's still "decent" in the right hands if you know what to do but the avarage unexperienced player it's a 100% free kill.
For me it's not fun anymore and I have no reason to play dok or wp when I have a rp or zeal.
At least someone who noticed this as well:
https://bugs.returnofreckoning.com/view.php?id=22073
My suggestion is simply to revert the patch having " 10% on heal chance to proc" instead of "20% on casting heal", the first one worked on every heal both hot ticks and direct heals. Then leave the rest as it is. It's not OP but the class will be better overall.
Any thought?
Re: Wp / DoK heal proc and sustain
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 8:37 am
by wachlarz
6 ppl in party x 10% and hot. perma reg gain ?
Re: Wp / DoK heal proc and sustain
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 8:48 am
by Scottx125
I'll agree the broken gear proc of on heal opened up more options for the WP to play further back. The 5s detaunt is crap (not to mention the 8 piece SoV ability). For it to be useful outside of small scale you need to time it extremely well in ORVR. And it usually doesn't make much difference because the amount of damage will kill you either way in anything greater than 24v24.
That's the current major weakness of the WP, in large scale ORVR you need to be close to the front to smite and heal to your maximum potential. But you're then in the way of AOE damage, pulls, AOE interrupts etc. Pair that with the fact all of your direct heals can't be cast while moving. You're also unable to escape if things really go wrong and you struggle in running fights to do any form of direct healing.
There seems to be a lack of risk vs reward. The whole point of the WP is to play close to the fight where you get hit a lot. But all we get to mitigate that risk is medium armour.. Not to mention the fact that one of our auras is completely worthless (armour aura).
Re: Wp / DoK heal proc and sustain
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 8:49 am
by Scottx125
wachlarz wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 8:37 am
6 ppl in party x 10% and hot. perma reg gain ?
It wasn't perma. The only abilities IIRC were the AOE hot and Martyr's Blessing that actually guaranteed a positive return. Everything else was either a coinflip to break even or a loss.
Re: Wp / DoK heal proc and sustain
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 10:33 am
by teoklas
whats up with this bad proc meta nobody likes but is pushed anyway, almost every class has something like this going on, just revert the patch already
Re: Wp / DoK heal proc and sustain
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 5:50 pm
by Loans
Scottx125 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 8:48 am
I'll agree the broken gear proc of on heal opened up more options for the WP to play further back. The 5s detaunt is crap (not to mention the 8 piece SoV ability). For it to be useful outside of small scale you need to time it extremely well in ORVR. And it usually doesn't make much difference because the amount of damage will kill you either way in anything greater than 24v24.
That's the current major weakness of the WP, in large scale ORVR you need to be close to the front to smite and heal to your maximum potential. But you're then in the way of AOE damage, pulls, AOE interrupts etc. Pair that with the fact all of your direct heals can't be cast while moving. You're also unable to escape if things really go wrong and you struggle in running fights to do any form of direct healing.
There seems to be a lack of risk vs reward. The whole point of the WP is to play close to the fight where you get hit a lot. But all we get to mitigate that risk is medium armour.. Not to mention the fact that one of our auras is completely worthless (armour aura).
This.
Having that proc also allows to actually heal and stay between 80 to 150 feet which help to survive and heal longer.
wachlarz wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 8:37 am
6 ppl in party x 10% and hot. perma reg gain ?
It's not perma, sometimes you have to regen or hit something depending the situation, of course if you use martyr blessing is insta proc but not infinite resources.
I can say the same thing about rp and zeal with ap tactic, I use the ritual + some ST heal and it's insta proc and infinite ap even spamming aoe heals no stop...
If i'm not satisfied I use the sov bonus and some + passive ap regen and 2 ap pots... Let's say that now both classes are even?
Re: Wp / DoK heal proc and sustain
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 6:20 pm
by Absinth
Loans wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 5:45 am
So I've been wondering for a while why this has been changed:
Why this has been changed and why sometimes this game wants to bring back the AoR mechanics but sometimes a mix of the two games? On live server we had "On heal" but here on RoR "On casting heal", of course "on heal" is much better and enjoinable also makes the gameplay smoother since now wp and dok can't really be a front line healer as book/chalice without perma aoe detaunt up (5 seconds is a joke since you have also waste a tactic slot) and that's ok but at least give them something. If I play a rp for example I can run around and spam heal no stop without worrying about AP.
Another thing is the sov ability. originally was insta 120 resource when "on casting heal" patch, then nerfed to 90 with the "on heal" patch, then now back to "on casting heal" but still at 90 resources.
The 10 resources from book/chalice is useful mostly at low level but then you won't notice the difference compared to 8 that was previously.
I used to enjoy a lot dok/wp with the "on heal" patch but now that wp doesn't have sustain, ranged snare, aoe detaunt IMO it's a bad healer class.
It's still "decent" in the right hands if you know what to do but the avarage unexperienced player it's a 100% free kill.
For me it's not fun anymore and I have no reason to play dok or wp when I have a rp or zeal.
At least someone who noticed this as well:
https://bugs.returnofreckoning.com/view.php?id=22073
My suggestion is simply to revert the patch having " 10% on heal chance to proc" instead of "20% on casting heal", the first one worked on every heal both hot ticks and direct heals. Then leave the rest as it is. It's not OP but the class will be better overall.
Any thought?
It was changed due to the simple fact that having a healer that has unlimited resources that cant be drained is just simply too op in grand scheme.
10 resources is noticable at high level because its significantly reduces the cost of your abilities (more than you think)
If its not fun simply dont play it, i dont find fun in zealot even thos for you "its superior choice"
DoK is way tankier than your zeal/sham and can do more without getting punished as hard as others.
I frontline in all blob fights and i could not do it with zeal/shammy, and as far as the in game healboard goes i do pretty well compared to shammies and zeals. Resource management is easy once you get a hold of it and if you have issues with it you still have the reaping ability from sov that insta gives you 120 essence.
What sucks for me when it comes to chalice dok is the fact that you really dont have any ST tools for healing that are more than have some hp and then hot
Re: Wp / DoK heal proc and sustain
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 8:29 pm
by Scottx125
Resource management isn't an issue on the WP if you know what you're doing. Problem is mobility, survivability in anything more than 24v24 and useless abilities/aura. As I said above the 8 piece sov is crap. Sorry it just is. Compared to the Knights group charge (amazing). And the fact 1 of the 3 auras isn't worth taking in any situation.
Re: Wp / DoK heal proc and sustain
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2024 10:27 pm
by Hazmy
A message from the Balance Group on this topic:
For clarification, when the ability patch dropped, the Sovereign and Onslaught proc were bugged to proc of non-direct healing. So with your Area Healing over Time up it was up permanently.
The reason behind the mentioned Righteous Fury/Soul Essence regen procs on gear and the extra regen of Chalice/Tome is to spread out your resource gain more over multiple sources. This allows more gear sets to be viable and have a less steep gear curve for those levelling a Warrior Priest or Disciple of Khaine.
Also note that more balance changes to healers are planned in the future when we get there. And the resource management obviously play an important part in the class balance of those two. Rather than making one gear set overpowered, there are many other knobs we could turn to influence the classes’ Righteous Fury/Soul Essence balance if deemed necessary.