Proposal: Discordant SC Weekly Event

[Everdin]

Spoiler:

If you look almost every skills of support classes (tanks/healers), you will see that their are oriented into group play (for example, AoE heal, guard, morales, ...). Sure, developers never said that grouping is the right way (or solo is the wrong way) to play the game but by design, the game is group oriented, no matter what you think. Of course, you can solo roam, do solo in which game mode you want but it will not change the fact that you'll play automatically with others players at some points (in SC/in RvR), whether you want it or not.




I think I am adressing this point : if grouping is fast and easy (thanks to tools in game), naturally players will join and leave parties when they have the time to do so. I don't mind grouping someone for 30mn if that allows my team to fill the remaining spot. It is just that a lot of players don't want to have social interactions and use the excuse of time, playstyle, etc ...

I see multiple downside by allowing solo players a weekly event :
- How do you balance PUGs SC ? Do you want it to be random or do you want it to be 2/2/2 ?
- If people are getting stomp in PUGs SC, because the opposite faction has one or two good balanced teams, it will not change the situation you'll see during Weekly SC against premade. So what is the next step ?
- This is development time used for one game mode when there are other game modes that require more attention.




I don't mind people doing SC once or twice and then log off or PUGs. SCs can be here for that. But I don't think Weekly SC should be easier. If you want the rewards from this event, you have to invest a little more than a few SCs here and there. And if I recall correctly, developpers have already say that if you want the rewards for this kind of event, you need to play accordingly.




The PUGs SC is already here, and I'm not sure it is working that much (since they prevents duo to queue). But I don't see why it should be a Weekly PUG SC. The game became a lot more casual (on some good parts) and I think this is bad to lost more the teamplay aspect by giving more rewards into the PUGs SC.
From my personal experience, Weekly SC can be a lot of harder for the premades, especially when you need to face 2 premades and you have only one, or during 18v18 SC where your faction is pepe. For me, we should try more to raise the level of players on RoR, by making them play more in teams than solo. In this way, players will progress, work more on their team spirit and this will therefore allow for more interesting fights, for each faction.

Let me blow your mind.

Pug Scen does not equal "solo play."

It is a solo QUEUE yes, but you do not PLAY solo. It is a solo Queue to make a Group. You still have to play your toon's archetype and work together in that group. That is not solo play, it just isn't.

Solo is Solo roaming without a group in the lakes. OR, I suppose going alone in a scen in a separate party.

You and people like you need to get past the giant definitional issue your argument has. You make a strawman of the pug as being someone militantly against working together as a team. That is simply not true. Plenty of Pug plays work together in scens, just the same as they do in pug warbands.

There is nothing wrong with solo queue and it should not be punished the way it currently is.

Thank you for saving me time for replying to this. Honestly nothing he said proved anything wrong and you're right. It comes down to the inability to understand that solo queing doesn't mean solo playing. No one ques by themselves and just stays in a group by themselves thats crazy. And if that does happen it's normally because a permade didnt get put it down their own group and leaves that party.

Anyways, permades vs pugs is bad for the servers health, and they've yet to prove me wrong. Heck the only thing they could say is "It would increase que times" but lets be honest que times are already **** what is a little more waiting for a better experience? I feel like if the pro premade group were honest with themselves they'd just admit they like the way it is because it allows them to farm easier and they don't want a challenge.

Cause if I'm being honest before I took my large break I did premades a lot, however if there was ever a permade vs permade group the SC would go the full time and both groups would end up dodging each other because it wasn't efficient towards the end goal of farming crests and RR. So really I can't take these people seriously when they argue in bad faith and treat this issue like some zero sum argument. It simply should be solo/duo pugs vs solo/duo pugs and permades vs permades. Anyone that argues against that only cares about themselves, their ego, and how fast they can farm. Because I promise you you won't see many of these permades in ranked when it relaunches.

Jep, just remove solo quer from normal sc so they can concentrate on discordant, and allow duos there as well, 100% agree!

[Brizio]

Spoiler:

Let me blow your mind.

Pug Scen does not equal "solo play."

It is a solo QUEUE yes, but you do not PLAY solo. It is a solo Queue to make a Group. You still have to play your toon's archetype and work together in that group. That is not solo play, it just isn't.

Solo is Solo roaming without a group in the lakes. OR, I suppose going alone in a scen in a separate party.

You and people like you need to get past the giant definitional issue your argument has. You make a strawman of the pug as being someone militantly against working together as a team. That is simply not true. Plenty of Pug plays work together in scens, just the same as they do in pug warbands.

There is nothing wrong with solo queue and it should not be punished the way it currently is.

Thank you for saving me time for replying to this. Honestly nothing he said proved anything wrong and you're right. It comes down to the inability to understand that solo queing doesn't mean solo playing. No one ques by themselves and just stays in a group by themselves thats crazy. And if that does happen it's normally because a permade didnt get put it down their own group and leaves that party.

Anyways, permades vs pugs is bad for the servers health, and they've yet to prove me wrong. Heck the only thing they could say is "It would increase que times" but lets be honest que times are already **** what is a little more waiting for a better experience? I feel like if the pro premade group were honest with themselves they'd just admit they like the way it is because it allows them to farm easier and they don't want a challenge.

Cause if I'm being honest before I took my large break I did premades a lot, however if there was ever a permade vs permade group the SC would go the full time and both groups would end up dodging each other because it wasn't efficient towards the end goal of farming crests and RR. So really I can't take these people seriously when they argue in bad faith and treat this issue like some zero sum argument. It simply should be solo/duo pugs vs solo/duo pugs and permades vs permades. Anyone that argues against that only cares about themselves, their ego, and how fast they can farm. Because I promise you you won't see many of these permades in ranked when it relaunches.

Jep, just remove solo quer from normal sc so they can concentrate on discordant, and allow duos there as well, 100% agree!

...and you kill SCs in NA time for premades, basicaly. Hardly there are 2 premades queueing at same time.

Fix the matchmaker, that is currently abysmal (i think its the worst matchmaker I've ever seen) focusing on same number of class role (if you have 1x3x2 on one side, SC only start if other side has 1x3x2) and apply buffs x debuffs according to the MMR. Premades will prolly have better MMR so they either get debuffed or Pugs get buffed.

Something could be done about ranked x MMR.... anyway.

[Everdin]

Thank you for saving me time for replying to this. Honestly nothing he said proved anything wrong and you're right. It comes down to the inability to understand that solo queing doesn't mean solo playing. No one ques by themselves and just stays in a group by themselves thats crazy. And if that does happen it's normally because a permade didnt get put it down their own group and leaves that party.

Anyways, permades vs pugs is bad for the servers health, and they've yet to prove me wrong. Heck the only thing they could say is "It would increase que times" but lets be honest que times are already **** what is a little more waiting for a better experience? I feel like if the pro premade group were honest with themselves they'd just admit they like the way it is because it allows them to farm easier and they don't want a challenge.

Cause if I'm being honest before I took my large break I did premades a lot, however if there was ever a permade vs permade group the SC would go the full time and both groups would end up dodging each other because it wasn't efficient towards the end goal of farming crests and RR. So really I can't take these people seriously when they argue in bad faith and treat this issue like some zero sum argument. It simply should be solo/duo pugs vs solo/duo pugs and permades vs permades. Anyone that argues against that only cares about themselves, their ego, and how fast they can farm. Because I promise you you won't see many of these permades in ranked when it relaunches.

Jep, just remove solo quer from normal sc so they can concentrate on discordant, and allow duos there as well, 100% agree!

...and you kill SCs in NA time for premades, basicaly. Hardly there are 2 premades queueing at same time.

Fix the matchmaker, that is currently abysmal (i think its the worst matchmaker I've ever seen) focusing on same number of class role (if you have 1x3x2 on one side, SC only start if other side has 1x3x2) and apply buffs x debuffs according to the MMR. Premades will prolly have better MMR so they either get debuffed or Pugs get buffed.

Something could be done about ranked x MMR.... anyway.

Maybe I didn't make it clear enough, but the current system is pretty okay, but IF to change something, then this, so we get rid of these ridiculous threads

[Caleb]

Maybe I didn't make it clear enough, but the current system is pretty okay, but IF to change something, then this, so we get rid of these ridiculous threads

If you are unable to participate in the discussion without ridiculing people and/or their ideas with absolutely unnecessary side-remarks to shut them down - then please avoid commenting all-together and let people who are able to form proper counter-arguments do so instead.

[Everdin]

Maybe I didn't make it clear enough, but the current system is pretty okay, but IF to change something, then this, so we get rid of these ridiculous threads

If you are unable to participate in the discussion without ridiculing people and/or their ideas with absolutely unnecessary side-remarks - then please avoid commenting all-together and let people who are able to have a civil conversation continue.

I commented my absolut serious opinion in every thread that appears and will continue so, try to stop me if you want. I play solo, I play smallmen, I play premade, so I think my voice here should be as relevant as every other here. You and same minded people always try to exclude and hide this as more player friendly then the other side. NEW GAMEMODE, but only for solos cause premades are the server scum in your eyes!

Instead of encourage players to use what is here you want changes that excludes premades from participate. Like mentioned before, I'm pretty fine with a weekly quest for discordant and normal sc (seperated), but why promote discordant if a solo mode is so much needed, all you need to do is get the solo people there, not writing a wall of text to rant about premades. You are frustrated, I get it, but thats no one else business or fault. If all solos would que discordant for two weeks straight, showing that they are a community that acctually cares about all this stuff, I'm sure you could change more then with such proposals here, I would be happy to join there! When I play solo I nearly only que discordant, maybe Ironclad if aviable, I would never ever think it's a good idea to que for the others, and if so I'm aware that I will get my a.. whiped.

If I play smallscale (mostly duo), I am Happy if there are not only premades in there but a bunch of solos/duos/trios whatever, I also hate it getting stomped, but I won't cry, cause thats the game, and you can bet I will do my best to bring the enemy hell.

On weekend I play premade, cause weekend SC is premade content, and I want the rewards, if I can't find one I decide if the rewards are worth queing solo or not. If there are only stomps I try it later cause my time is worht more then beeing angry about other players. I know, the forum is full of people crying about the lack of time in this game and also write about the HOURS it cost them to complete weekend warfront. If they rather waste their time running against premades then joining a group in /5... sry your dicision! Instead they invest even more time complaining in a forum that the game is not tailored exactly for them AND ONLY FOR THEM...

[Caleb]

The problem is that you assume far too many things that are either inaccurate, well proven by playing just for a few days, or are just ?!possibly?! projections of your own issues with other people, that has nothing to do with the thread and so you continuously derail it, like you are doing it right now, in order to devalidate the very reasonable points made here by many, and make the opposition to your idea what the game should be look like "rants" "cries" and "ridiculous".

Your completely out of order assumptions :

• - That this is a rant. I am fairly confident the "Wall of Text" has been a well-articulated proposal with clear intentions without any focus on negativity or calling out other players. Nor have others been ranting for all I know.

• - That this is a problem for me, and this thread is a selfish request due to it. Ignoring the fact this was a proposal based on a number of people asking for these changes, and there are people who support it. There is a whole swarm of new players in Cross for instance who filed a complaint to Troma.

• - That I am frustrated and I made this post out of frustration?! I am very chill thank you.

• - That I am trying to exclude Premade and think "they are the server's scum". I've never called anyone of the sort, nor have I made remarks against premades, so I'd appreciate if you wouldn't put words into my mouth. No, Premades already have Events for them, I actually mostly play in Premades in fact, so I know what I am talking about. It's the solo people who don't have a functioning game mode, and a Premade team stomps solo players without any effort.

• - That "we are angry about other players" and this is complaining. No this is simply a suggestion to fix a problem for a lot of people, of which group you might not be part of.If there is any anger in this thread, it is certainly not coming from me.

It's none of my business to "stop you", it is for moderators - but I will very much call you out for for grouping me and others into some sort of "villain cult" that's only purpose is to "cry, complain and rant" while this whole discussion and thread has been mostly civil, full of good proposals and the only negativity and bad remarks have been from your side, as you can very much see from the quotes I've taken from your very posts.

So yes, I will once again say that if you are unable to participate without aggressive remarks and being generally hostile with others - then simply refrain from commenting.

[Brizio]

Jep, just remove solo quer from normal sc so they can concentrate on discordant, and allow duos there as well, 100% agree!

...and you kill SCs in NA time for premades, basicaly. Hardly there are 2 premades queueing at same time.

Fix the matchmaker, that is currently abysmal (i think its the worst matchmaker I've ever seen) focusing on same number of class role (if you have 1x3x2 on one side, SC only start if other side has 1x3x2) and apply buffs x debuffs according to the MMR. Premades will prolly have better MMR so they either get debuffed or Pugs get buffed.

Something could be done about ranked x MMR.... anyway.

Maybe I didn't make it clear enough, but the current system is pretty okay, but IF to change something, then this, so we get rid of these ridiculous threads

Ok, even though i disagree with the op and dont think premades are the problem, you cant sau current system is pretty okay. Check the SC spam on killboard, more then half of it end up with surrender. That means one side was so dominant that there was no fun involved.

The matchmaker is awful.

[Everdin]

...and you kill SCs in NA time for premades, basicaly. Hardly there are 2 premades queueing at same time.

Fix the matchmaker, that is currently abysmal (i think its the worst matchmaker I've ever seen) focusing on same number of class role (if you have 1x3x2 on one side, SC only start if other side has 1x3x2) and apply buffs x debuffs according to the MMR. Premades will prolly have better MMR so they either get debuffed or Pugs get buffed.

Something could be done about ranked x MMR.... anyway.

Maybe I didn't make it clear enough, but the current system is pretty okay, but IF to change something, then this, so we get rid of these ridiculous threads

Ok, even though i disagree with the op and dont think premades are the problem, you cant sau current system is pretty okay. Check the SC spam on killboard, more then half of it end up with surrender. That means one side was so dominant that there was no fun involved.

The matchmaker is awful.

Then take a look at discordant and see that nothing would change, surrenders happen in premade vs pug, in premade vs premade and in pug vs pug

[Caleb]

The issue most people have that I talked with has nothing to do with winning or losing. It is a matter of player perspective and potential to have fun.

Pugs vs Premade Team is not fun, nor is it fair- it is rigged from the start by multiple aspects, from communication, to composition to potential voice comms.

Pugs vs Pugs - whether you win or lose, if you surrender or you don't is fair and everyone starts with the same chances, with the players that are online on their factions side. It is the Luck of the Draw of Solo Queuing.

Making a group is an unrealistic proposal, as anyone who is even remotely active on the server knows - you CAN NOT form a Premade group whenever the hell you want in /5 and you will most likely solo queue unless you have guildies to help.

==========>

There are literal Guilds that exist on the server with the sole purpose to pug farm in scenarios and quit the moment they get a premade team against them - only to re-queue later.

There are comps that focus specifically to stomp pugs. I'm sure that must be fun to play against.

==========>

But all of that is besides the point and has nothing to do with this thread - it simply proposes to have a new Weekly Event for Discordant Scenarios to revive the queue for it and give people more incentives to play it - so solo players have a viable alternative to use apart from a dead queue.

Apart from that the whole server would get a new Weekly PvP Tome Event and everyone would benefit.

[Ashoris]

Spoiler:

The problem is that you assume far too many things that are either inaccurate, well proven by playing just for a few days, or are just ?!possibly?! projections of your own issues with other people, that has nothing to do with the thread and so you continuously derail it, like you are doing it right now, in order to devalidate the very reasonable points made here by many, and make the opposition to your idea what the game should be look like "rants" "cries" and "ridiculous".

Your completely out of order assumptions :

• - That this is a rant. I am fairly confident the "Wall of Text" has been a well-articulated proposal with clear intentions without any focus on negativity or calling out other players. Nor have others been ranting for all I know.

• - That this is a problem for me, and this thread is a selfish request due to it. Ignoring the fact this was a proposal based on a number of people asking for these changes, and there are people who support it. There is a whole swarm of new players in Cross for instance who filed a complaint to Troma.

• - That I am frustrated and I made this post out of frustration?! I am very chill thank you.

• - That I am trying to exclude Premade and think "they are the server's scum". I've never called anyone of the sort, nor have I made remarks against premades, so I'd appreciate if you wouldn't put words into my mouth. No, Premades already have Events for them, I actually mostly play in Premades in fact, so I know what I am talking about. It's the solo people who don't have a functioning game mode, and a Premade team stomps solo players without any effort.

• - That "we are angry about other players" and this is complaining. No this is simply a suggestion to fix a problem for a lot of people, of which group you might not be part of.If there is any anger in this thread, it is certainly not coming from me.

It's none of my business to "stop you", it is for moderators - but I will very much call you out for for grouping me and others into some sort of "villain cult" that's only purpose is to "cry, complain and rant" while this whole discussion and thread has been mostly civil, full of good proposals and the only negativity and bad remarks have been from your side, as you can very much see from the quotes I've taken from your very posts.

So yes, I will once again say that if you are unable to participate without aggressive remarks and being generally hostile with others - then simply refrain from commetning.

You are not wrong - most of the "out of order assumptions" are not from this Thread but a summary of earlier ones.
but while you list all the points who are not directly refering to this Thread and you are "not wrong". You fail to mention or comment on THE ONE really good argument he is making:

If all solos would que discordant for two weeks straight, showing that they are a community that acctually cares about all this stuff, I'm sure you could change more then with such proposals here, I would be happy to join there! When I play solo I nearly only que discordant, maybe Ironclad if aviable, I would never ever think it's a good idea to que for the others, and if so I'm aware that I will get my a.. whiped.

sidenote: as i wrote you in a PM earlier (and you did not answer to) we are a global community and additionally from probably a lot of different socioeconomic backrounds - means a lot of different cultures. So styles of discussion varies a lot - we should cut each other some slack in this regard.
Not to forget that people like me and many others try to discuss rather complex topics in a non native language for us.

So instead of foccussing on the negative part of his arguement - why not take the valid one for the sake of the Thread and trhe whole topic ?