[KotBS] Solo-friendly, but still group friendly build

[ShadowWar]

I've been experimenting a lot since the patch came out on ways to fit into the meta, and have fun in a number of different aspects of the game. This is what I've come up with so far, and would love to hear discussion around it, and what you've found if you have similar goals.

I'll start with some goals I'm looking to accomplish:

• Be effective in an organized ORvR setting
• Be useful in small group play
• Be effective in solo roaming for ORvR objective-based play
• Be fun, and dynamic to play
• Can farm crafting mats.
• Not be a pain to swap around those different roles.

So, those being in kind of presets for me, and all of them being highly subjective (because, define effective right?) I still had a direction, and I feel like my trajectory is on the right path. The goal I chose to satisfy all of that on my Knight was to be as tanky, regeny, annoying, and still be a threat that can't be ignored or easily surprised.

Group

Solo

Farm

One of the big things that I think I had to accept was that I was going to ignore Path of Vigilance and skip Smashing Counter in the middle tree, relying instead on Heaven's Fury for my stun/stagger. My reasoning is thus: if I'm solo, I can control the stagger; if I'm in a group, other people will have a better KD; I can be doing other better things with my GCD thanks to others having the KD; and the extra AoE damage / area denial/interrupt/stagger works well for the groups I usually play with.

The other thing is I had to be more flexible with my auras. I normally run All Out Assault!, Gather Your Resolve!, and To Glory!. However, I tend to drop AoA! and even To Glory! for other things as needed, like Press the Attack!, On Your Guard!, and Stand Strong! in order of commonality. Sometimes you get paired up with other KotBS and sometimes you don't, make decisions on what your situation needs the most, but try to lean into your strengths (no pun intended).

In group play, I get to run around, stripping healing off everything (thank you Shamans), punting people, slowing them down, debuffing them, and just being a nuisance to their lives. Preferably while chugging pots, and bubbles, and guards, and all the things to stay alive, while your guarded buddy does the killing, and you provide some tipping point bomb damage. Hearing the WB leader call out "bomb bomb bomb" is a great time to drop PtA for AoA and get a nice few more pulses of Elemental Damage in, because why not?

End goal, I'm hoping to be Warlord/Triumph mix for the stats I'm looking for and fill in the rest with tali's. The few days I've been playing this has been a blast and I've particularly enjoyed the WE fights I've been able to find that I think everyone walks away a little surprised from, no matter the victor. Don't sleep on Emporer's Ward, the frequency of those little micro-bubbles showing up in a fight against some classes is surprising.

Anyway, have fun out there, and have a happy new year!

[Rova]

thnx mate for your expertise, i'll give it a try.

[forsa]

Spoiler:

I've been experimenting a lot since the patch came out on ways to fit into the meta, and have fun in a number of different aspects of the game. This is what I've come up with so far, and would love to hear discussion around it, and what you've found if you have similar goals.

I'll start with some goals I'm looking to accomplish:

• Be effective in an organized ORvR setting
• Be useful in small group play
• Be effective in solo roaming for ORvR objective-based play
• Be fun, and dynamic to play
• Can farm crafting mats.
• Not be a pain to swap around those different roles.

So, those being in kind of presets for me, and all of them being highly subjective (because, define effective right?) I still had a direction, and I feel like my trajectory is on the right path. The goal I chose to satisfy all of that on my Knight was to be as tanky, regeny, annoying, and still be a threat that can't be ignored or easily surprised.

Group

Solo

Farm

One of the big things that I think I had to accept was that I was going to ignore Path of Vigilance and skip Smashing Counter in the middle tree, relying instead on Heaven's Fury for my stun/stagger. My reasoning is thus: if I'm solo, I can control the stagger; if I'm in a group, other people will have a better KD; I can be doing other better things with my GCD thanks to others having the KD; and the extra AoE damage / area denial/interrupt/stagger works well for the groups I usually play with.

The other thing is I had to be more flexible with my auras. I normally run All Out Assault!, Gather Your Resolve!, and To Glory!. However, I tend to drop AoA! and even To Glory! for other things as needed, like Press the Attack!, On Your Guard!, and Stand Strong! in order of commonality. Sometimes you get paired up with other KotBS and sometimes you don't, make decisions on what your situation needs the most, but try to lean into your strengths (no pun intended).

In group play, I get to run around, stripping healing off everything (thank you Shamans), punting people, slowing them down, debuffing them, and just being a nuisance to their lives. Preferably while chugging pots, and bubbles, and guards, and all the things to stay alive, while your guarded buddy does the killing, and you provide some tipping point bomb damage. Hearing the WB leader call out "bomb bomb bomb" is a great time to drop PtA for AoA and get a nice few more pulses of Elemental Damage in, because why not?

End goal, I'm hoping to be Warlord/Triumph mix for the stats I'm looking for and fill in the rest with tali's. The few days I've been playing this has been a blast and I've particularly enjoyed the WE fights I've been able to find that I think everyone walks away a little surprised from, no matter the victor. Don't sleep on Emporer's Ward, the frequency of those little micro-bubbles showing up in a fight against some classes is surprising.

Anyway, have fun out there, and have a happy new year!

There are some disturbing points in your guide, from a 80+ kotbs pov.

define effective

You provide to your party +15% healing, +5/+10 crit, resistance buff/debuff, super punt, x2 shatter (or 3 target snare), 20 ap every 5 sec, knock down targets when requested, maybe a situational stagger, -10% enemy def or even moral drain.

Be effective in solo roaming for ORvR objective-based play

Soloroam outside of regen build on kotbs is just a free RR for destro, and even with it you are just a funny turtle with zero damage (no, ticks from AoA, OYG and SoS do not count when you cant hit medium armor for 600+ non-crit damage regularly).

Group

Your GROUP kotbs build lacks Focused mending? Thats a big no-no if you dont have a second kotbs with you 100% of the time.
it should probably look like this RoR.builders - Knight of the Blazing Sun

I normally run All Out Assault!, Gather Your Resolve!, and To Glory!.

AoA is just harmful (outside of solofarm) due to breaking stagger you are dealing with HF(or your ally's stagger, super no-no).

Hearing the WB leader call out "bomb bomb bomb" is a great time to drop PtA for AoA and get a nice few more pulses of Elemental Damage in, because why not?

Cause it deals zero damage, and you are better off using Arcing Swing + Raze/No escape/Solar Flare
Also PTA not only buffs your allies STR (to deal more melee damage) but also debuffs all enemies STR around you (which are 90% tanks and mdd, so less inc damage for your friends), so the point of dealing godly 350 dmg in 9 sec (before enemy resists kick in) is kinda moot.

You should try this snb build RoR.builders - Knight of the Blazing Sun. Later maybe drop the ST tactic for ap aura.

[Zxul]

From a solo perspective only- currently regen builds are popular. You need enough dmg to kill past their regen + mitigation, or you won't kill anyone except random lowbies. Only 2 days ago I run into kotb which while was tanky enough to not be solo killable on my magus, also didn't do enough dmg to kill me while I walked to our wc from the other side of the map, despite the magus having only average regen.

In addition, rvr is zergy- you need to kill fast, or more will add up.

Also in addition, you need to be able to deal with kiters- shams and shs are as popular as ever.

You need to somehow get enough dmg to kill while keeping enough defense. Problem is, you have low str scaling on abilities. In addition, you don't have an armor debuff ability, except on m1 for 15 sec.

I guess I would concentrate on abilities which do synergise- Runefang and Precision Strike for example, or Overpowering Swing and Biting Blade. I would also likely see how I can fit Bellow Commands in- since as kotb you sure ain't killing with burst, other option is killing with constant pressure which requires ap. I would also check which kotb abilities, if any, are procs, since those ignore toughness and don't care about str scaling. Dmg aura + resists debuff aura are good, but you need more. And I would also check how do you get an armor debuff- some tank sets have those, question is if the other mods on armor make it worth it.

And to press the point again, you need to keep defense while so- I run into quite a few tanks which while do some dmg, melt in seconds.

[ShadowWar]

Good convo

To be clear, my build is not theoretical. I'm an RR77 Knight, who has been using this (or similar) spec in ORvR solo and WB play. I see you make some good points FOR taking some of the more SnB tanky style builds, but I don't necessarily agree it's the best for all situations, or even the most well-rounded.

I'll re-read it at some point and noodle on it some more. I suspect a lot of these are conversations I've already had with many guild mates that I didn't find convincing enough to swap. However, with the speed of changes they devs are doing now with balance, it's hard to see how things are going to fall out for the class. For example, last night I was tooling around with a build to see about including Solar Flare if I went with a +2 Mastery build, and then they nerfed it to half the morale drain, which puts a hurt on an already point-starved build.

[ShadowWar]

And to press the point again, you need to keep defense while so- I run into quite a few tanks which while do some dmg, melt in seconds.

Won't address everything point by point, suffice to say, this build wasn't theoretical. I think I was RR75 or so when I wrote it, and I was eating *MOST* WE's and other MDPS while solo roaming in the lakes, and having enough defense to still tank in Warbands. Magus fights could go either way. Squiggies I can usually take if I get the jump on them, and other tanks are a coinflip that usually comes down to their build, BORCs and Shield BGs are particularly annoying. Healers I just try to avoid, outside of shamans who if they are low enough I can be competitive with between AP drain and Destroy Confidence.

The goal of the build isn't to *do damage*, it's to be adaptable, and competitive in a majority of situations I play.

A last point, Bellow Commands is not great. If you want AP, the Aura is better since it drains as well, and it scales. +75 AP/ 5 sec for you vs +20 AP / 5 Sec x 6 and -20 AP / 5 sec x 24. Even solo fighting solo it's a 35 sec difference in the AP swing for you/and the enemy at the cost of a tactic you can't change and ignores the GCD.

[forsa]

To be clear, my build is not theoretical. I'm an RR77 Knight, who has been using this (or similar) spec in ORvR solo and WB play. I see you make some good points FOR taking some of the more SnB tanky style builds, but I don't necessarily agree it's the best for all situations, or even the most well-rounded.

I'll re-read it at some point and noodle on it some more. I suspect a lot of these are conversations I've already had with many guild mates that I didn't find convincing enough to swap. However, with the speed of changes they devs are doing now with balance, it's hard to see how things are going to fall out for the class. For example, last night I was tooling around with a build to see about including Solar Flare if I went with a +2 Mastery build, and then they nerfed it to half the morale drain, which puts a hurt on an already point-starved build.

I didn't talk ONLY about SnB (take a closer look at group build), 2h is pretty viable with proper gear, and can even be somewhat tanky, i just pointed that you may try the super-utility SnB build RoR.builders - Knight of the Blazing Sun (edited after patch) , and find out yourself how useful you can be for your party outside of standard guard+punt.
Dropping utility cause you want to deal more dam... i mean be well rounded (and that burst you were talking in initial guide), well those guildmates might have a point. RR is meaningless if a person is playing like Ch****** Hero or the likes of him.

Im happy that you killed all the witches/sh/shammies/maguses you encountered, mind sharing your equip, rr points distribution and skill rotation?
There is always something one can learn, myself included

Edit: Dont get me wrong, i have no issues with you playing the way you like, be my guest.
But when you post a build on a forum, for other people (probably with low or no experience) to play and miss key points of Knight class, criticism is inevitable.

[Ayzio]

I've been experimenting a lot since the patch came out on ways to fit into the meta, and have fun in a number of different aspects of the game. This is what I've come up with so far, and would love to hear discussion around it, and what you've found if you have similar goals.

Hey, thanks for this build.

It's nice to see knights who are interested to play 2H although this idea displeases the majority when we do not comply with the omnipresent "holy meta" of SnB.

For me, I intend to play my knight as I want.

I just wanted to know if since writing your topic, you have any updates or advice, especially on the solo build?

Thx.

[ShadowWar]

Thanks for the kind words! Playing these games is about having fun, and I have fun experimenting, and finding things that work that other people may not have looked at. It's hard right now to nail something down because the meta is shifting so rapidly with bi-weekly balance updates. I will say though, that the biggest argument against the standard SnB knight build is that anytime you're Stay Focused!, you are losing functionality x24 in ORvR - it does not scale. Now's Our Chance has a similar, but lesser, effect, in that it doesn't buff your group at all.

All that said: I've now gone mostly the same as the original as I hit RR80 the other night, I tend to run AoA a little bit less and more situationally than before. I also tried to run with enough warlord for +2 glory, but dropped the shoulders and gem for off-sov so I could stack a little more hp/4 regen and a touch more strength. I've also been playing with 3-pieces of blue +40 hp/4 regen (but this needs a lot more testing).

As far as specs go, I've been running this: https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... 43,779,503. I've been dropping overpowering swing when solo for runefang/destoy confidence, and then created different duo permutations of runefang/destroy confidence/banish darkness in tandem with emperor's ward and toughness for the other two for solo play for different situations, and dropping emperor's ward when I have enough healing to not be an issue.

I *did* try to play with solar flare when I had +2 sov, but it really, really isn't worth it. It's super niche as it really only works when pushing a keep/fort. It's not good for defense, because by the time someone pushes in, they've already blown their morales, so it's a waste, and if you run out during a defense to drain them, you're risking your life. So very niche usage, and you lose a lot (IMO) to get it.

Hope that helps give some insight and ideas!

[ShadowWar]

Edit: Dont get me wrong, i have no issues with you playing the way you like, be my guest.
But when you post a build on a forum, for other people (probably with low or no experience) to play and miss key points of Knight class, criticism is inevitable.

No worries from my end

I'm still not convinced Focused Mending is as good as everyone thinks it is. In large part, because it requires you to run Stay Focused!, which does not scale. Anytime you take an aura with no debuff, it needs to be SO good, that it makes up for 24 people not being debuffed. That's a lot to ask for from an aura, and making 6 people get healed for 15% more doesn't seem like enough. Obviously, the value scale shifts as you go to smaller-scale fights.

I tried playing around with different utility builds with warlord +2 glory, nothing felt really good. I'm still noodling over this: https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... 7,8058,503 and may give it more of a try in the near future. Dirty Tricks feels like a bandaid compared to Overpowering Swings, 6 people +5% to crit seems WAY worse than EVERYONE +10% to crit on a lot of targets, and both take a tactic. There's a scaling factor here again that I struggle with. Anyway, appreciate the thoughts, definitely going to look over them more.

Current Gear

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 487/armory

I'm running 2 piece off-sov, 5 warlord, and 2 triumph (iirc), and for gems it's either 3 +40 hp regen items, or three genesis items. I'll get the triumph jewel eventually and decide on a weapon and may actually go do PvE to get what I need unless I decide Fortress Claymore is good enough (the run speed proc is nice).

Mastery Build
https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... 43,503,779

Renown Build
Reflex x4, Might x5, Vigor x4, Futile Strikes x1, Deft Defender x1