Patch Notes 22/12/2023

[lumpi33]

...

You just don't want to accept that engi is facing a lot higher mitigation as sniper and has to put lots of points into weaponskill just to be mediocre, giving up a lot of survivability. Your arguments with the wind set and the resi liniments are ricidulous. Nobody is using them, nobody and everybody is using armor pots, everybody! Your statements about engis wanting to snipe sov tanks with lots of weaponskill is also ridiculous. Even when giving up everything for weaponskill you barely hurt sov tanks.

I've said how it is but you don't wanna accept it. You have to play engi to know what's up.

When Engi hits t4 he turns into a complete teethless damage dealer. You can get BIS equipment but will never reach the fun and damage of the lower tiers again. They just cannot fullfil their role as dps properly in t4.

You have to be delusional to think that Engi is fine the way it is. It really isn't. No matter how often you try to prove something with your calculations.

[Zxul]

...

You just don't want to accept that engi is facing a lot higher mitigation as sniper and has to put lots of points into weaponskill just to be mediocre, giving up a lot of survivability. Your arguments with the wind set and the resi liniments are ricidulous. Nobody is using them, nobody and everybody is using armor pots, everybody! Your statements about engis wanting to snipe sov tanks with lots of weaponskill is also ridiculous. Even when giving up everything for weaponskill you barely hurt sov tanks.

I've said how it is but you don't wanna accept it. You have to play engi to know what's up.

When Engi hits t4 he turns into a complete teethless damage dealer. You can get BIS equipment but will never reach the fun and damage of the lower tiers again. They just cannot fullfil their role as dps properly in t4.

You have to be delusional to think that Engi is fine the way it is. It really isn't. No matter how often you try to prove something with your calculations.

So more excuses, more ignoring facts, and more ignoring arguments which you can't answer. And yet again entire post which can be summed in "I can't snipe sov tanks while using worst spec for it, engi sucks!".

[lumpi33]

So more excuses, more ignoring facts, and more ignoring arguments which you can't answer. And yet again entire post which can be summed in "I can't snipe sov tanks while using worst spec for it, engi sucks!".

Classic destro argumentation. Shouting random stuff, that are either derailing or just wrong, without bringing arguments themself.

[Zxul]

So more excuses, more ignoring facts, and more ignoring arguments which you can't answer. And yet again entire post which can be summed in "I can't snipe sov tanks while using worst spec for it, engi sucks!".

Classic destro argumentation. Shouting random stuff, that are either derailing or just wrong, without bringing arguments themself.

And more excuses and lies, since you can't answer the arguments.

I put the exact armor mitigation calculation- so far you still refuse to actually address it.

I pointed out that engi has a magical dmg middle tree, which per your own posts is very similar to magus one, and which works fine for single target on magus- you refused to address it, and instead keep repeating "armor bad".

I pointed out how each loss that you were talking about in that magus video is cause the opponent was bad- suddenly you shut about the magus video.

Your entire posts here are summed up with "eeee I can't snipe sov tanks in a bad spec for it nerf", while ignoring the facts since you can't actually deal with those.

[lemao]

So more excuses, more ignoring facts, and more ignoring arguments which you can't answer. And yet again entire post which can be summed in "I can't snipe sov tanks while using worst spec for it, engi sucks!".

Classic destro argumentation. Shouting random stuff, that are either derailing or just wrong, without bringing arguments themself.

And more excuses and lies, since you can't answer the arguments.

I put the exact armor mitigation calculation- so far you still refuse to actually address it.

I pointed out that engi has a magical dmg middle tree, which per your own posts is very similar to magus one, and which works fine for single target on magus- you refused to address it, and instead keep repeating "armor bad".

I pointed out how each loss that you were talking about in that magus video is cause the opponent was bad- suddenly you shut about the magus video.

Your entire posts here are summed up with "eeee I can't snipe sov tanks in a bad spec for it nerf", while ignoring the facts since you can't actually deal with those.

This dude is always heavily order bias on forums, you shouldnt bother to much, no point.

[Mandodlenn]

Slayer aoe pressure isnt the same, with Fierceness nerf or "fixed" its a big drop in dps.

Which change to Fierceness? From 34 to 40, something hidden ?

[lumpi33]

And more excuses and lies, since you can't answer the arguments.

I put the exact armor mitigation calculation- so far you still refuse to actually address it.

I pointed out that engi has a magical dmg middle tree, which per your own posts is very similar to magus one, and which works fine for single target on magus- you refused to address it, and instead keep repeating "armor bad".

I pointed out how each loss that you were talking about in that magus video is cause the opponent was bad- suddenly you shut about the magus video.

Your entire posts here are summed up with "eeee I can't snipe sov tanks in a bad spec for it nerf", while ignoring the facts since you can't actually deal with those.

What is your actual problem? You were asking a question: "4. Magus being a lot tougher than an engi- plz elaborate on this one." and I've clearly pointed out the reasons for that. Yet you insist that due to your calculation 300WS is enough. Which is not the case. You can ask any experienced Engi if 300WS is enough for a sniper Engi and you will get the same answer from all. No, it is not enough. You need at least 500WS, better more. And we are not even talking about killing tanks here. Believe it or not. And that's one of the main reasons sniper Engis have lower survivability than a sniper Magus.

And your armor mitigation calcuation alone doesn't matter without factoring in the actual damage of the abilities and how much you can put out in a certain time frame. What's better? 30% mitigation with a x damage hitting ability or 40% mitigation with a y damage hitting ability or maybe a 50% mitigation and hitting twice as often with z? See, you can calculate mitigation all day long, it doesn't matter, without looking at the actual damage and dps as well.

The only thing that matters is the damage getting through and how well the class performs in pvp vs others. If Engis had harder hitting abilities they wouldn't have to spend that much WS and the 300WS from sov would be enough. But that's not the case. Their damage abilities are slow and weak compared to others. Magus has a different damage type, different mitigation, different cast times, different abilities and different targets.

It's better to just try it out, see how it performs overall and then tweak it. Instead of trying to do theory crafting with leaving out all important factors. There are also other indicators like statistics that can be used. These stats clearly show that Engi is underperforming and people agree with it. You are probably the only saying it aint so.

[sioding]

You guys derailing a simple patchnote thread into a balance discussion. You know what happens to derailed threads?

[lumpi33]

You guys derailing a simple patchnote thread into a balance discussion. You know what happens to derailed threads?

You nerfed some classes pretty hard with the ability overhaul and this patch contains balance changes as well. Were else should we give feedback then in response to your balance changes? That people are picking up points and start to discuss it is only natural.

[sioding]

You nerfed some classes pretty hard with the ability overhaul and this patch contains balance changes as well. Were else should we give feedback then in response to your balance changes? That people are picking up points and start to discuss it is only natural.

Create a "Feedback: Patch Notes 22/12/2023" under General - bring up some good proposals under Balance Proposal. I don't say your discussion isn't important but its hard to react on other patch problems when the thread is filled with theory crafting and explanations why whatever is not really comparable to this or that - topped off by personal animosities.