Patch Notes 22/12/2023

[Scoundrel88]

Developers, What have you done in the last month, omg, you have sentenced the game to death, even look at it online lately. I go to my SW and don’t understand how to play with it now. All that is playable is tank classes in DPS specs, as well as def and regen builds, DPS class is dead... You’re just burying what you’ve been building to all these years. This is our New Year's gift(

[Zxul]

And how combination of armor debuff on turret +12 sec of 25% armor ignore is bad?
As for cap on dmg, lets make an actual calculation. Bis medium armor mdps with armor pot will have around 3.4 k armor, or 2.4 k after the turret debuff. Lets take an engi with 300 ws- a minimum amount from armor etc with no actual investment. 300/14= 21% armor pen. 2.4 k /44= 54.5 % mitigation after the turret armor debuff, *0.79= 43% actual mitigation vs engi with no actual ws investment, compared to 40% cap on magical resistances. Now add the 25% armor ignore, and its down to 32% or so mitigation, still with no actual ws investment on engi side.

You make it look like the debuffs are always up. That's not the case. The 25% armor ignore is on a looong cooldown and the pet needs to hit for that debuff. In reality you are facing A LOT of high armor and tough enemies. Everyone is running around with armor pots. It's mostly tanks, aoe maras, mSHs, def/regen WEs and zealots/shaman with stacked armor/tough/absorbs. They all have high armor and/or high toughness.

Magus has a strong debuff on his pink horror as well. The average 40 character without resi buff has around 450-500ish resis. The pet can debuff 340, leaving the target with only around 150 resis and very low mitigation. That's pretty strong and as you can see in the video for example it hits really hard.

Again, magical damage is just better and is facing less mitigation.

Magus Havoc (sniper) tree dmg type debuff is also pet only, so equal here- magus pet also need to hit for the debuff to work.

Toughness and absorbs work vs magical dmg exactly as efficiently as they work vs physical dmg.

Am/rp/kotb can buff magic resistances by as much as magus can debuff it, and for that matter buff team members with it. There is no similar armor buff that any class can give (dok armor cov doesn't stacks with pot, same for zealot armor tactic).

For an extra points, wh can hit a button and ignore all magical dmg for 7 sec. WE will require a m1 for that vs ranged dmg (which btw wh also has).

As for "magical damage is just better and is facing less mitigation", see the above calculations.

Ok lets make a list.
..
4. Magus being a lot tougher than an engi- plz elaborate on this one.
..

I only pick this point because it's a major difference between a single target Magus and a single target Engi sniper.

On paper their stats are pretty even as r40 in sov:

Code: Select all

Engineer:
Bal:    221 Base + 210+80 Sov = 511
Tough:  172 Base +  71    Sov = 253
WS:     108 Base +  80    Sov = 188
Ini:    196 Base +  60    Sov = 256
Wounds: 440 Base + 114+88 Sov = 642

Magus:
Int:    221 Base + 210+80 Sov = 511
Tough:  147 Base +  62    Sov = 209
Ini:    196 Base + 113    Sov = 309
Wounds: 391 Base + 152+88 Sov = 631

The real issue is that Engis sniper have to get as much weaponskill as possible to do any damage. They have to take fighting chance tactic for the 120WS/120BAL but it will reduce their tough by 120. This amount of WS is still not sufficient. You have to get 700ish. You need to mix sets to get at least one set with WS bonus, you have to put some talis with WS in and you need WS from renown points. Every WS you are trying to get means giving up survivability. The Magus doesn't have that issue, he is just raising int to max and then put the rest into wounds/tough/FS. So when you compare a sniper Magus to a sniper Engi then the Magus will be a lot tougher, while still doing more damage to most targets due to his magical damage type.

So in reality Engi sniper vs Magus sniper stats will look more like:

Code: Select all

Engineer:
Bal:    221 Base + 210+80 Sov = 511 + trying to get max
Tough:  172 Base +  71    Sov = 253 - 120 = 133 -> almost no tough as Engi
WS:     108 Base +  80    Sov = 188 + sacrificing everything for more WS
Ini:    196 Base +  60    Sov = 256
Wounds: 440 Base + 114+88 Sov = 642 -> low health at Engi -> ~8k health

Magus:
Int:    221 Base + 210+80 Sov = 511 + trying to get max
Tough:  147 Base +  62    Sov = 209 + talis/renown -> a lot higher tough than engi
Ini:    196 Base + 113    Sov = 309
Wounds: 391 Base + 152+88 Sov = 631 + talis/renown -> a lot higher wounds than engi -> ~10k health

Nice, now explain why exactly do you need so much ws, except to snipe tanks. Because in the previous post I made the dmg calculations for a 300 ws engi which doesn't requires any of that, vs a sov medium armor mdps with an armor pot.

.. and Magus has the Aegis with 2k instant heal and 240 more wounds for 20s and the absorb that works vs every damage type. The survivability of a single target sniper magus compared to a single target sniper engi isn't even close. Magus A LOT better. Basically the 500WS points the Engi is trying to get you can put into survivability as Magus without sacrificing anything.

And Aegis is 60 sec cd, while engi god Keg which heals much more over same 60 sec. And absorb takes a tactic slot, unlike Keg. And again why do you need so much ws, except to snipe tanks.

It's the physical mitigation in this game that is a complete mess. Sov tanks get 100%+ physical mitigation without even trying, meaning that even after debuffs they are at capped 75% mitigation before toughness and block/dodge/disrupt/absorb. How stupid is that? It's like giving SoV engis 100% pierce without even trying and after detaunt they would still pierce 75%. Would be the same stupidity.

Aha so yep, you are complaining that you need to spec glass cannon to be able to snipe sov tanks from max range, got you.

[lumpi33]

..., got you.

No you didn't. How hard is it to understand that a class that has to raise two damage stats instead of one is having less points for defensive stats?

You wont be able to run as physical damage dealer / sniper engi when you do not invest in weaponskill for more pierce. Magus can completely ignore that second weaponskill attribute without sacrificing anything. Watch the video again and look how easy it is to kill SWs or Engis while they are doing almost no damage to the magus. That's how it is. Nothing of your theory crafting will change that.

btw a full sov engi has around 200ish WS without investing anything in WS, not 300. Just as quick comparission: Maras were getting 50% armor pierce for free, equal to 700WS... Physical damage dealers without good armor piercing are screwed. Engi is in that boat.

The thing that engi needs is a toggle to switch bullets to magical damage or a passive 15% pierce for guns. Then it would be roughly even.

[Dackjanielz]

personally i hope what ends up happening is the engie/magus gets pushed more in a support role direction, the game is constantly lacking healers and tanks i think it would be interesting to have a DPS class that can help in this regard.

Why can healers spec into being a DPS class but DPS classes cannot spec into support?
Think it would be cool personally, give them the ability to Rez someone if they spec for it for example.

On a side note some mechanic to encourage rezzing would be good too in general

[lumpi33]

personally i hope what ends up happening is the engie/magus gets pushed more in a support role direction, the game is constantly lacking healers and tanks i think it would be interesting to have a DPS class that can help in this regard.

Why can healers spec into being a DPS class but DPS classes cannot spec into support?
Think it would be cool personally, give them the ability to Rez someone if they spec for it for example.

On a side note some mechanic to encourage rezzing would be good too in general

I wouldn't mind if they are getting pushed in a more dps/support role, but not in the healer/rezzer direction. More in the damage supporting direction. In the end it is classified as ranged dps. You cannot just change their role. People rolled it for pew pew not for being a healer or rezzer.

I think some kind of a damage ramp up mechanic would fit well. Like a debuff that is being applied on the target when hit by a cast that stacks up. That's in line with their stationary game play. The longer you ignore them the more deadly they become.

[Dackjanielz]

personally i hope what ends up happening is the engie/magus gets pushed more in a support role direction, the game is constantly lacking healers and tanks i think it would be interesting to have a DPS class that can help in this regard.

Why can healers spec into being a DPS class but DPS classes cannot spec into support?
Think it would be cool personally, give them the ability to Rez someone if they spec for it for example.

On a side note some mechanic to encourage rezzing would be good too in general

I wouldn't mind if they are getting pushed in a more dps/support role, but not in the healer/rezzer direction. More in the damage supporting direction. In the end it is classified as ranged dps. You cannot just change their role. People rolled it for pew pew not for being a healer or rezzer.

I think some kind of a damage ramp up mechanic would fit well. Like a debuff that is being applied on the target when hit by a cast that stacks up. That's in line with their stationary game play. The longer you ignore them the more deadly they become.

Well i didn't mean the entire class per se - but lets say, the Tinky tree.....Maybe some general tactics, like you do less dmg but you're keg heals more.....for example.
Maybe one which lets you put your flak jacket on your entire group, not just yourself, etc etc.

[ErPelo]

what is happening to the game?? the new patch that rewards order is embarrassing.. many are stopping playing this game.. I play from the origins of Warhammer and it's a real nightmare to go back to the origins that reward order to the detriment of right-wing chaos. it's not good it's not good

[CyunUnderis]

No you didn't. How hard is it to understand that a class that has to raise two damage stats instead of one is having less points for defensive stats?
...

This is the case for like every physical damage classes (SL, Choppa, Mara, WH, WE, SH, SW, ...). And, that's totally fine. Each class has their strength and weakness.

[Wyzard]

Nerfing engis to 1.4.8 and then nerfing the last reason to have one in RvR wb.
Not bad.

is being a pull-bot fun tho ? And u guys mostly stand on a Hill sniping anyway rights so. That seems atleast somewhat fun, being a pull-bot is mindless snooze fest

so wrong, pull bot is extremely fun

[ravezaar]

Nerfing engis to 1.4.8 and then nerfing the last reason to have one in RvR wb.
Not bad.

is being a pull-bot fun tho ? And u guys mostly stand on a Hill sniping anyway rights so. That seems atleast somewhat fun, being a pull-bot is mindless snooze fest

so wrong, pull bot is extremely fun

agree to disagree then