[BO]dulled down

[Zealhealx]

[BO]dulled down to guard bot

I played Swordmaster a bit on the live server since I was an Order main. I liked it a lot, but I always thought the Black Orc was cooler. However, my pledge to Sigmar was strong, so I refused to play him. So, I decided to roll his cool counterpart here during the double RR event, creating a mighty Black Orc with the biggest and meanest character model, and gameplay to back it up. An unkillable tank with crazy block, self-healing, stats stealing, and strong buffs/debuffs, as well as decent damage. It used to be one of the most 'complex' (for 2006) and 'rewarding' classes to play. Or at least it WAS.

I am absolutely shocked by the state of the Black Orc on this server right now. As I took a closer look at the talents, I didn't think much of it except disappointment that THC now requires a 2h weapon. So, I was forced to play 2h in mid-tier and had a blast. However, as soon as I hit T4, the horror started. I was forced to 'git good' and go SnB until I have BiS gear and invest 6 months to get RR 80 and the gear to be viable (still bad). Literally ZERO damage as SnB, buffs and debuffs reduced to ashes. They literally do not contribute to anything. The best plan abilities are a joke. No THC, just Waaagh spam (new spell? Corporeal damage, lmao?). All other abilities are useless. No punt, no nothing. 'Not in da face' is actually the only good ability, and that's IT. If the 'Big Swing' tactic was slightly buffed to 35% buildup, maybe it would be bearable to at least give you something to do like disabling the casters. It's just running around your DPS and soaking the damage, eventually dying because Destro has zero healers and SC matchmaking sucks. But that's a topic for another discussion. As for the Black Orc, it must be the dumbest class right now, and I have played almost any class. Even the 2h Chosen from live, spamming Ravage, was way cooler than this. Sad times."

[Moonbiter]

A) 2h BO needs a good long punt as other tanks do.
B) BO needs THC without 2h requirement as other tanks do.

[Acidic]

The difference on RoR of playing a BO vs SM feels like night and day.
Have a 90 + BO and find it waste of space as it is just a guard bot with ability to body block when SnB and as 2H it’s fun but only for yourself (if you like fluf damage) but other tanks do the job better. Playing SM even at low levels (mine only 40/40 atm) it has uses and does not feel as pointless .
The nerfs to the class have just gutted it.

[ravezaar]

6months to get to max lvl is that a long investment ? really for max lvl of an MMO ? players nowdays want to have max lvl and gear with a snap of the fingers.

I do agree BO bin nerfed and crippled since WaR however and is imo worst out of the 6 Tanks currently.

[shoelessHN]

When they took the CD reducer from BO instead of choppa 2 years ago the class died.

It's been pointless to play since as the other 2 tanks are better in every regard.

[Cyrylius]

Yes, blork is in rough spot. Though, to defend it, the class itself is fine. Its just the comparisons are very unflattering. On one hand, mirror SM skillset is overloaded with meaningful utility in snb while also having more damage potential with 2h. Arguably sm is too strong, so blork seems much weaker than it actually is. It has good skills, morale pump comes to mind, but destro already has a morale pumping tank that's also plain better than blork. And chosen is mandatory for every 6 man party which in the meta balance world means its overpowered. So you fight for the second tank spot with bgs and extra chosens. And while you do bring some (2) pieces of unique utility it still means that you get 2 to 1 spots in optimized groups. Technically same as bg, but bg also actually performs in 6 man ST parties where blork fails miserably. I genuinely feel like blork should be on order and SM on destro, and then the cd reduction thing is somehow balanced. Morale pump on very durable tank is something order lacks and as of now blork is just overshadowed.
Edit: hot take: give cd reduction to white lion instead. Makes the class meta relevant even in the world of slayer ball and then after removing WW blork can go on order roster and SM slides in his place. That also makes WL the only interrupt on order so it's a double whammy. Game fixed.

[IrkulixAenDeith]

A) 2h BO needs a good long punt as other tanks do.

I really don't like this proposals, in which every tank has long punt, the more differences between classes the better.

When they took the CD reducer from BO instead of choppa 2 years ago the class died.

It was a good decision to take it form BO. Two abilities like this for destro was too much. It's a pity that in my opinion the black orc didn't get something more interesting in return. I agree that Black Orc is currently the weakest tank, and class need some attention.

[Nefarian78]

BO has been in a rough spot for years, especially for 6v6 and roaming.

BOs suffers from a very simple problem. It brings nothing to the table except for a RNG Ini/wound steal, WS buff for a single target and a terrible armor debuff. That's the entirety of the class.

No utility, cannot KD on demand because of the plans mechanic, it cannot survive because You Wot?! is a meme that's only active 66% of the time, it cannot punt, it cannot deal damage because the damage it deals is mitigated by armor and the stat multipliers are lower than what they were from earlier in live, THC is 75 compared to 125 and Shut yer Face is 125 instead of 150 just off the top of my head.

Doesn't help that the stat squish on gear basically butchered all 2h tanks while making no real difference for dps classes. Outside of SM thanks to WoDs, 2h tanks cannot perform their job as bruisers in sov meta like they used to in the past and instead only use 2h weapons for the utility benefits such as striketrough for punts, Punt CD and making use of 2h restricted abilities. None of which are a gamechanger for BO.

To the people thinking a long punt will somehow help. It won't and if you think otherwise you have no idea what you're talking about. Nobody is going to trade a BG for a weaker punt, kd, armor debuff, wound debuff, no aoe snare, no Crimson Death only to get absolutely nothing game changing in return.

Giving a punt to BO is another poorly thought of bandaid fix that ends up doing nothing like You Wot?! was just to have an excuse to move on. No, the class does not need a punt (and especially not SMs), it needs a reason to exist.

[akisnaakkeli]

BO has been in a rough spot for years, especially for 6v6 and roaming.

BOs suffers from a very simple problem. It brings nothing to the table except for a RNG Ini/wound steal, WS buff for a single target and a terrible armor debuff. That's the entirety of the class.

No utility, cannot KD on demand because of the plans mechanic, it cannot survive because You Wot?! is a meme that's only active 66% of the time, it cannot punt, it cannot deal damage because the damage it deals is mitigated by armor and the stat multipliers are lower than what they were from earlier in live, THC is 75 compared to 125 and Shut yer Face is 125 instead of 150 just off the top of my head.

Doesn't help that the stat squish on gear basically butchered all 2h tanks while making no real difference for dps classes. Outside of SM thanks to WoDs, 2h tanks cannot perform their job as bruisers in sov meta like they used to in the past and instead only use 2h weapons for the utility benefits such as striketrough for punts, Punt CD and making use of 2h restricted abilities. None of which are a gamechanger for BO.

To the people thinking a long punt will somehow help. It won't and if you think otherwise you have no idea what they're talking about. Nobody is going to trade a BG for a weaker punt, kd, armor debuff, wound debuff, no aoe snare, no Crimson Death only to get absolutely nothing game changing in return.

Giving a punt to BO is another poorly thought of bandaid fix that ends up doing nothing like You Wot?! was just to have an excuse to move on. No, the class does not need a punt (and especially not SMs), it needs a reason to exist.

Interesting. I had no idea that stat multiplier THC is 75 instead of 125 and same with shut yer face. Bringing THC Shield Bruiser spec back would do wonders. Only tank i ever played with shield was blorc because of the dmg and defense potential at the same time. Disorients working on Melee chars(instant casts) and making big brawling snare 30-40% because dok already covers 20% permasnare with covenant. Double WS buff should be brought back as well (230 WS or so requires tactic)

Also interesting that Kotbs is SUPER butchered even more than BO and still its basically Mandatory to have. Also giving 10% Strikethrough to all 2h users is a mistake. Obvious reason why WP was the only class that had 10% parry strikethrough is because Melee healer, I remember how baffled i was that some ror staff had no idea why that is..

And now there is shield dok/wp (HARAM) And no Snb thc bruiser BO. Man i hate dok wp shield because it ruined 2h/Dw specs too much(no AP based melee heals at all, and no Grp melee heal at all + fok/judgement costing 15 resources instead of 15 ap and giving 15 resources. And its just too easy to play shield wp/dok when you compare it how it was before shield spec was added.

[Zealhealx]

BO has been in a rough spot for years, especially for 6v6 and roaming.

BOs suffers from a very simple problem. It brings nothing to the table except for a RNG Ini/wound steal, WS buff for a single target and a terrible armor debuff. That's the entirety of the class.

No utility, cannot KD on demand because of the plans mechanic, it cannot survive because You Wot?! is a meme that's only active 66% of the time, it cannot punt, it cannot deal damage because the damage it deals is mitigated by armor and the stat multipliers are lower than what they were from earlier in live, THC is 75 compared to 125 and Shut yer Face is 125 instead of 150 just off the top of my head.

Doesn't help that the stat squish on gear basically butchered all 2h tanks while making no real difference for dps classes. Outside of SM thanks to WoDs, 2h tanks cannot perform their job as bruisers in sov meta like they used to in the past and instead only use 2h weapons for the utility benefits such as striketrough for punts, Punt CD and making use of 2h restricted abilities. None of which are a gamechanger for BO.

To the people thinking a long punt will somehow help. It won't and if you think otherwise you have no idea what they're talking about. Nobody is going to trade a BG for a weaker punt, kd, armor debuff, wound debuff, no aoe snare, no Crimson Death only to get absolutely nothing game changing in return.

Giving a punt to BO is another poorly thought of bandaid fix that ends up doing nothing like You Wot?! was just to have an excuse to move on. No, the class does not need a punt (and especially not SMs), it needs a reason to exist.

agreed