Is reward model driving current population inbalance

[Acidic]

The game seems more and more going to taking zones with no opposition, swarming to zones for defense of keeps, blobbing ..

When looking at the behavior of current it is clear that most of the players are not getting rewards from the actual fighting and are happy to do just enough to get a bag or influence from the weekly.

This game style of play kills the heart of the game which is fighting.

I suggest that the reward system is reworked as the current effect is clearly driving the players the wrong route as current route of least resistance is weekly and pave zones

How to fix this ?
My suggestion:
A) remove the keep defense bag and keep take rvr, this is just like any BO and should have similar reward, small tick . After all this is just a stage in the overall pq of the zone
B) remove rewards from zone, including forts and LoTD where the aao average is too lobsided
C) reduce / remove rr from assisting if u or you group did not do at least 20% (arbitrary number) of damage to player


This should address current system where passive play is rewarded, hopefully will also actively encourage xrealm to balance as there is no reward for unbalanced playing.

[githappens]

I think removing bags from keeps is marvelous idea. I'd follow it by buffing weekly RvR rewards, while reaching each tier would be harder. Should result in more bloodbath and less keep play.

I'd also add kills to RvR weekly.

[Scottx125]

And then suddenly nobody wants to do keep pushes and everyone blobs up to vacuum up kills. We need to properly reintroduce the campaign system so taking keeps is valuable and is rewarding to the end goal of taking/defending a city. The RVR scene is about PVP, however PVP is not synonymous with kills. PVP strictly means players are competing vs other players, that can mean many things and whilst in this game killing other players is a big part of it, the heart of the RVR system is (or should be) the campaign system. Without that we might as well just have RvR lakes with no keeps, forts, objectives or cities. Which will get boring real fast.

Also IDK what you're talking about, passive play is not rewarded. If you stand in a zone and do nothing. You get no influence and therefore no zone contrib. Kills, BO takes, Keep takes, boxes and kills all give zone contribution. All of which require active participation.

[Acidic]

And then suddenly nobody wants to do keep pushes and everyone blobs up to vacuum up kills. We need to properly reintroduce the campaign system so taking keeps is valuable and is rewarding to the end goal of taking/defending a city. The RVR scene is about PVP, however PVP is not synonymous with kills. PVP strictly means players are competing vs other players, that can mean many things and whilst in this game killing other players is a big part of it, the heart of the RVR system is (or should be) the campaign system. Without that we might as well just have RvR lakes with no keeps, forts, objectives or cities. Which will get boring real fast.

Also IDK what you're talking about, passive play is not rewarded. If you stand in a zone and do nothing. You get no influence and therefore no zone contrib. Kills, BO takes, Keep takes, boxes and kills all give zone contribution. All of which require active participation.

Just to set a few points, keep is not zone. Zones should be more rewarded than keep which is only part of a zone.
Passive play is sitting in a keep waiting for easy defense
Passive play is sitting in a Zerg and killing massively outnumbered enemy
…
These are currently rewarded as they get some contribution from touching enemy players , yet they actually contributed very little in game play as such

In short the current gameplay of the passives is to stay at max range and just tag players to get though their weekly contribution.

Removing this will make ppl actually have to do something active to get progress

Think it should be obvious that players do not need to be active when organized guilds ask for players but they rather stay in their pug bands and passive leach / blob rather than joining something better.

In short the blobbing currently and passive game play are supported by the current reward system. Implementing what I suggest would remove those rewards and so farming in zergs no longer rewards, and as such players would soon stop this .

[Acidic]

Fat finger post

[Scottx125]

You can't force people to engage with other people lol. If ppl are hiding in keeps its usually because the opposite side outnumbers them. And they are in the keep denying the opposite faction kills or are getting into the keep to prevent being locked out. That's a pop balance/org WB balance issue. Not a player issue or reward issue.

[Nameless]

Weekly orvr could be done without hitting enemy only with pvdoor and taking empty forts. So imo that should be changed as well.

To diminish importance of keep add additional importance for BOs so ppl disperse at zone, more movement more small fight instead of zerg. Add lock timers on BOs based on aao (no aao - 2 min, 50 aap - 5 100 aao - 11 min and so on) and give additional effect on sieges based on number of BOs your realm control. For example if last 15 min you didnt control a single bo your realm coild put only 1 oil on inner and outer walls. If defenders hold 3 bos postern is blocked and so on
Just give more meaning on bos. Atm bos main function after 2/3 stars is pity renown and contribution

[Caduceus]

Perhaps the question should be, why are keeps not being defended as they should?

I see two possible reasons here:

1. Recent changes to morale and AoE caps have reduced the effectiveness of keep funnels, making keep defenses less rewarding as a result.

2. In a lot of cases, removal of keep respawn has made it impossible to enter the keep after the siege has started.


Solutions I would probably find elsewhere. Rewards for participating in the RvR campaign are already miniscule to the point that a lot of players don't care. Removing more rewards for RvR would make the whole ordeal even more meaningless and bland.

If anything, the campaign needs to be made more meaningful, and players need to be given reasons to defend keeps. In my opinion, significant boosts to AAO rewards are long overdue.


I think your suggested solutions are bad. Just like the devs, you only focus on the stick, and not the carrot. Trying to punish players into playing the way you like is a terrible game design philosophy, and RoR already has WAY too much of that.

[DirkDaring]

Weekly orvr could be done without hitting enemy only with pvdoor and taking empty forts. So imo that should be changed as well.

To diminish importance of keep add additional importance for BOs so ppl disperse at zone, more movement more small fight instead of zerg. Add lock timers on BOs based on aao (no aao - 2 min, 50 aap - 5 100 aao - 11 min and so on) and give additional effect on sieges based on number of BOs your realm control. For example if last 15 min you didnt control a single bo your realm coild put only 1 oil on inner and outer walls. If defenders hold 3 bos postern is blocked and so on
Just give more meaning on bos. Atm bos main function after 2/3 stars is pity renown and contribution

Yep last night I logged on at 1100pm CST just to see what was going on, since I had been off for 4 hours. Order was in stage 2 of Fell Landing Fort, there were 94 Order vs 13 dest, and they were in Chaos Wastes as well, prepping CW for next PvDoor zone lock. I logged back off, and went back to watching tv.

Since Nov 2022 Dest has sieged Altdorf 6 times, out of a possible 90 + city Sieges, due to PvE fort locks, every night when no dest are on. The system needs to be reworked, as at the moment, all it does is promote PVE to progress the campaign with scheduled 3 day city siege, based on Fort wins, from Pve zone locks.

Maybe change t where if there are no defenders, or not a set amount of defenders, the fort capture doesn't count towards the city siege total count. you can still get your PVE bag , just not move the campaign to city siege, based on who took the most forts, as all it does is promote pvE forts,

[tazdingo]

it was all downhill after BO ticks were removed. it was the unsung glue holding functional rvr together, removed without thought, leading to a cascade of changing behaviours and resulting in what we see now

you wanted to vilify players for "just sitting on BOs"? well great, now they just sit in keeps where you can't even kill them. box running is mind numbing