WP/Dok Dps bring Sigmar radiance back

[Dackjanielz]

i would rather his dps was lowered to increase his healing or support potential myself, he is after all a healer class.

As it stands now though, some of the tanks outdps him and a WH has better selfsustain.

This idea some people have, that ABSOLUTELY NO HEALING WHEN DPS SPEC is just stupid... The class is a Melee Healer AND Healing whilst doing DMG is the whole point originally. Well shields made the healing aspect INSANELY OP. You can aoe heal for 2-3k atm with shield, just with 1 goddamn Divine strike/Consume Essence then heal your grp for 1k + with AP based melee heal dps specs dont have acces to anymore. That would be Sigmars radiance, Only AP based melee heal for dok/wp and very needed for dps spec!

You maybe healed your grp for 400-800hp with dps spec before shield. Maybe got the party heal to 1k with Grace of Sigmar. Well now that Grace of Sigmar also adds 2 extra targets to Divine strike (only shield ofc..) and ds heals 150% of the dmg done, and its aoe=)

And btw its true, its more easy to "melee heal" myself as WH atm compared to dps wp/dok... and that is sad.

Truth.

[Avernus]

You mean like AM and RP can do?
When those classes are dps spec they still have PLENTY of heal and support utility.

Another fine example is a 2h knight, can they dps? Not really - they have some but they can still tank and provide loads of tools.
This is how it should be designed, he is a support class he should ALWAYS support.

Not exactly. My point is - that if some people want dps healer's potential to be on par with real dps classes (which, on competitive level, is not the case) - and there are people like this, asking for knockdown for dok/wp etc - then this healer should not be able to heal anything whatsoever because if you want to be real dps - play like one and don't ask to be "dps but better".

Atm dps healers are quite selfish, since self healing is quite OP (and this guys usually don't heal anyone but themselves) in smallscale and allows them to be less reliant on your allies while doing whatever they want. Its less effective for dok/wp since melee is kinda risky by its nature. Dps zealots/RP can be annoying in 1v1 too but they are limited by their clunky toolkit. And then there are dps AMs/Shamans - one of the most disgusting and effective solo classes (maybe not THE best, but very strong competitors nevertheless).

P.S. Its like in tip, shown when the game is loading, "do your class's job". Can tank do his job while trying to kill some stuff? Yes. Can dps healer heal his party when they are under heavy pressure? He can't (and probably don't even intend to try - he is dps after all!). Maybe he can be a good dps? He can't, unless you are busy stomping some pug/discordant. Good riddance.

[Scottx125]

i would rather his dps was lowered to increase his healing or support potential myself, he is after all a healer class.

As it stands now though, some of the tanks outdps him and a WH has better selfsustain.

This idea some people have, that ABSOLUTELY NO HEALING WHEN DPS SPEC is just stupid... The class is a Melee Healer AND Healing whilst doing DMG is the whole point originally. Well shields made the healing aspect INSANELY OP. You can aoe heal for 2-3k atm with shield, just with 1 goddamn Divine strike/Consume Essence then heal your grp for 1k + with AP based melee heal dps specs dont have acces to anymore. That would be Sigmars radiance, Only AP based melee heal for dok/wp and very needed for dps spec!

You maybe healed your grp for 400-800hp with dps spec before shield. Maybe got the party heal to 1k with Grace of Sigmar. Well now that Grace of Sigmar also adds 2 extra targets to Divine strike (only shield ofc..) and ds heals 150% of the dmg done, and its aoe=)

And btw its true, its more easy to "melee heal" myself as WH atm compared to dps wp/dok... and that is sad.

Mmmm. Grace WP isn't taken because of it's OP healing(its actually weak). It's taken in small scale because it adds a TINY amount of extra damage pressure. Grace WP seems decent because you need to be BiS and skilled to play it properly. Most salvation WP's, even average ones will out heal a Grace WP. I partially agree with your point. The WP is designed to be a melee healer, even salvation. Salvation dances behind the frontline smiting and casting it's heals. Grace is meant to be played in the thick of the frontline, but outside of SC's it'll melt pretty damn fast so it's useless there. Wrath on the other hand isn't designed as a healer spec, it's designed to be a DPS/debuffer. More of an offensive support. But it's too squishy, doesn't really heal and doesn't bring enough utility to warrant it replacing a DPS or a Healer.

[akisnaakkeli]

As it stands now though, some of the tanks outdps him and a WH has better selfsustain.

This idea some people have, that ABSOLUTELY NO HEALING WHEN DPS SPEC is just stupid... The class is a Melee Healer AND Healing whilst doing DMG is the whole point originally. Well shields made the healing aspect INSANELY OP. You can aoe heal for 2-3k atm with shield, just with 1 goddamn Divine strike/Consume Essence then heal your grp for 1k + with AP based melee heal dps specs dont have acces to anymore. That would be Sigmars radiance, Only AP based melee heal for dok/wp and very needed for dps spec!

You maybe healed your grp for 400-800hp with dps spec before shield. Maybe got the party heal to 1k with Grace of Sigmar. Well now that Grace of Sigmar also adds 2 extra targets to Divine strike (only shield ofc..) and ds heals 150% of the dmg done, and its aoe=)

And btw its true, its more easy to "melee heal" myself as WH atm compared to dps wp/dok... and that is sad.

Mmmm. Grace WP isn't taken because of it's OP healing(its actually weak). It's taken in small scale because it adds a TINY amount of extra damage pressure. Grace WP seems decent because you need to be BiS and skilled to play it properly. Most salvation WP's, even average ones will out heal a Grace WP. I partially agree with your point. The WP is designed to be a melee healer, even salvation. Salvation dances behind the frontline smiting and casting it's heals. Grace is meant to be played in the thick of the frontline, but outside of SC's it'll melt pretty damn fast so it's useless there. Wrath on the other hand isn't designed as a healer spec, it's designed to be a DPS/debuffer. More of an offensive support. But it's too squishy, doesn't really heal and doesn't bring enough utility to warrant it replacing a DPS or a Healer.

With 24 aoe cap,Nerfed CC, 1.5s GCD and 60-66 dps wpns with procs(Dont remember 2H dps but highest was 101.5dps) missing the game is too defensive in small scale but almost everything is useless in rvr except dmg sadly. Shield is RoR creation and while i applaud how it works, it still is bad for the game and the fact that class that is not tank can use shield and block? That wouldnt have NEVER even crossed anyones mind in Live to think that would happen. And Shield locked skills away, again restricting what and how you can play the class while thinking shield adds something but it doesnt. Dps WP used to have Guilty Soul tactic whenever you critted with Wrath ability your target would get 12sec spirit dmg dot that healed you or def target. Smite crits with luck had 3-5 having Guilty Soul(it could crit in live) So it was easily 1k hp for you every 3 sec. In RoR it's changed to 'increases Wrath dmg to 20% and gives the dot which aint bad, but the healing part was super important and very melee healer dps healing.

Dps Dok live had more dmg on Devour Essence than it does now and could trigger aoe HD in 150 ft away on def target, healing it big and potentially kill the enemies trying to kill your target. Also your Covenants had no ICD or if they had it was 0.25s instead of 1s in RoR. That is what originally made dual wield dps desirable, was the Procs. Also the snare Covenant with only aoe HD melee in game with at least 80% of true dps dmg and 20% Of true healers heal. All that was understood by who chose to play with them instead of against them like most do automatically.

RoR has made dps dok/wp to a "Selfish" class because now it is impossible to heal your grp,There is no AP using Melee grpheal(400-800hp for party per hit and there is no AP using Melee heal at all... And judgement/Fok used to give 15 resources but now it costs 15rf making it impossible to have a slight chance against ranged. Fok/Judgement are the only "Throw Axe" Skill that can do highish dmg. 800 Judgement crit in Live wasnt Rare. Rend soul/Divine assault being one of the best " Oh Shieeet" Saving Heals but now there is no Time and even less Resources to use it on others than you and your and there is litelly nothing you can do in RoR because you are designed to die after certain moves, Out of Rf/Se so fast. Thats why the AP based melee grpheal needs to exist.

Skills RoR have invented for Shield could easily be modified for Dps specs. Shielding Grace would work only for you and Sacrifice would have 60s CD for Dps. and Grace Of Sigmar would give 25% Inc melee heals without the 2 extra targets like it does now.

[Scottx125]

I won't quote you because it'll be massive. But I'd say DPS is the only thing that matters when you get to a point of critical mass. I've had this discussion in my guild. At a certain size of combat WP becomes useless/gimped. Because even dancing behind the frontline there's so much damage you'll just melt. And if you're at the backline casting you have downtime to supplicate which gimps your healing output. In that case it's better to have AM/RP. Plus they're both more mobile. It's also worth mentioning that at that point of critical mass with damage. There's no way to really counter it. You can pre-hot everyone but most HoTs tick every 1.5-3s. A group heal takes 1s or MB requires getting close and then channelling. But healing is for the most part a reactive measure. It's hard to react when as soon as you enter combat your group is already down by 30-50% after a second.

[akisnaakkeli]

Even if you dont quote you didnt really counter them either so i think we in agreement.

[Dackjanielz]

Yeah the 1.4.8 WP looks SOOO much better than what we have now - back then it looked like a healthy combination of both melee and healing in all three tree's.

Wrath had some healing but less dps.
Grace had 2h available to them.
Salvation actually had Divine assault, an actual melee option.

I'm not trying to make the class OP that's not the goal, i just want it to be a useful healer in all of its builds not just the one which forces you into a healbot.

[Scottx125]

Even if you dont quote you didnt really counter them either so i think we in agreement.

I'm not trying to lol. This is a discussion, not an argument .

[Nameless]

After the ror rework you got class that when put points at one tree other two are worthless. There is almost 0 synergy within the talent trees.
That is bizzare, all other classes got some valuable 2 and 3 trees specs beside wp/dok.

[akisnaakkeli]

Even if you dont quote you didnt really counter them either so i think we in agreement.

I'm not trying to lol. This is a discussion, not an argument .

Sometimes its hard in text to determ intent and for some reason while in internet if i write a rant i always seem to assume negative rather than positive intent : D Also i was gonna edit this in my text but if you played live and remember WH/WE Tyrant set bonus? "40% Speed increase on Killing blow for 10s" that didnt break on skill use=) Gonna have fun in RoR forums if they keep the original buff because oh people are going to complain