The way to get rid of both X-realming AND Faction Imbalance in RvR

[Flowson]

Lots of ideas, lots of things that can be done or tried but we need devs to take this on their hands [...]

Patience is the only thing we can practice right now

Please be assured that the development team will carefully review new suggestions and problem-solving approaches.

We are therefore grateful for new input, but also for critical reflections.

Yours Flowson.

[Dajciekrwi]

so make the game even more pve? lol no thanks

would rather have kills contribute to a zone score tied to aao

first faction to 1000 points flips zone
taking a keep grants 500 points scaled with aao 300 points for overpopulated realm 700 points for underdog
1 kill grants 1 point
1 kill with with 50% aao grants 1.5 and so on
holding a bo grants slow trickle of .5 per minute again scaled with aao
basically just make each zone a giant pq
ofc every number can be changed

This proposition will make one WB chasing one guy on whole zone, or push warband on both side to standing on bo

[gyps]

Lots of ideas, lots of things that can be done or tried but we need devs to take this on their hands [...]

Patience is the only thing we can practice right now

Please be assured that the development team will carefully review new suggestions and problem-solving approaches.

We are therefore grateful for new input, but also for critical reflections.

Yours Flowson.

X-Realming took away the realm prideness/proudness and gave us a way to engage more content either PVE/RVR.
PVE / RVR locks should be implemented, one realm for PVE the other for RVR content, implement a 24hrs switch if you want to change your PVE/RVR realm. If you enter RVR with your PVE realm you will just transform in the all mighty chicken

[Sufferkate]

In a post called, "Make RvR More like Scs."
I suggested, (OVER A YEAR AGO), On this date: Thu Mar 24, 2022, the purple colored SOLUTION below.
Currently RVR, is just x realm to higher pop side, and win. I just logged off due to 100 vs 20. Standing around waiting for the door to drop twice was NOT fun. We could have jumped off the wall if only... if only, there was a way, to make the players, SELF BALANCE the population. How about no rewards , xp, renown , ect. for over populated side.
Any thing OVER 20% = NO rewards. And if you can't, take a keep, with near equal numbers, then you don't deserve it. Just be happy now, ... 100% of the time, you log on, there WILL BE, near fair fights.

[Caduceus]

The issue is that there are too few tools the outnumbered side can use to even the odds.

This is what the game needs and has needed for quite a while.

The primary problem I'd describe as follows:

The outnumbered side cannot kill enemies fast enough, and through fast rezzing ensures that in most situations they will get overwhelmed eventually.


Consider for example one strong warband versus two mediocre ones.

The strong warband may get a good engagement and catch one of the two warbands by surprise. But will they kill all 24 of them to even the odds versus the second warband?

In most cases not.

They might debilitate one warband temporarily, but healers will use positioning to stay alive, and while the second mediocre warband engages, healers will start rezzing immediately.

To further complicate matters for the outnumbered side, usually enemy reinforcements start pouring on as well.


For the outnumbered side to have a chance, they must create a local advantage (for example through a tactical surprise) and then swiftly turn that into a lasting advantage for the remainder of the battle. This in particular is very difficult.


Ideally, the game should yield a higher reward for tactical surprises. Essentially that would reward skill and daring, and punish mediocre play.
I think the most important factor in being unable to turn tactical surprises into decisive advantages is the speed at which warbands can recover through rezzing. Perhaps a longer cooldown or bigger penalty should be applied to resurrections.

[Sulorie]

I wrote:Post#19 » Thu Mar 24, 2022

Currently RVR, is just x realm to higher pop side, and win. I just logged off due to 100 vs 20. Standing around waiting for the door to drop twice was NOT fun. We could have jumped off the wall if only... if only, there was a way, to make the players, SELF BALANCE the population. How about no rewards , xp, renown , ect. for over populated side.
Any thing OVER 20% = NO rewards. And if you can't, take a keep, with near equal numbers, then you don't deserve it. Just be happy now, ... 100% of the time, you log on, there WILL BE, near fair fights.

Quite bad suggestion to punish people who are just loyal to their realm in order to punish those who xrealm.
Those who xrealm to bigger side can't be considered good players, because those would just adapt to having aao bonus. You increase quantity on one side but not quality but to take zones quantity is enough with the current RVR system. This doesn't mean that players with realm pride are necessarily better :^) now people can feel offended equally.

You have either superior numbers and/or superior coordination to make it possible to take a zone.
You can't ever control or balance both, therefore any plan to make rvr "fair" is doomed right from the start.

The question is, what can the underdog do to make an impact or win battles despite losing the war.
Many solo players might see no purpose or have no gains on underdog side and will more likely tend towards xrealming to "win" something during their play time.
There is no evidence for coordinated xrealming to overpopulated side on the other hand.
One core problem I see with underdog is, you are lost if there is no coordination, because you already lack numbers. Without either pug warband leaders or organized guilds there will be no change.

[normanis]

The issue is that there are too few tools the outnumbered side can use to even the odds.

This is what the game needs and has needed for quite a while.

The primary problem I'd describe as follows:

The outnumbered side cannot kill enemies fast enough, and through fast rezzing ensures that in most situations they will get overwhelmed eventually.


Consider for example one strong warband versus two mediocre ones.

The strong warband may get a good engagement and catch one of the two warbands by surprise. But will they kill all 24 of them to even the odds versus the second warband?

In most cases not.

They might debilitate one warband temporarily, but healers will use positioning to stay alive, and while the second mediocre warband engages, healers will start rezzing immediately.

To further complicate matters for the outnumbered side, usually enemy reinforcements start pouring on as well.


For the outnumbered side to have a chance, they must create a local advantage (for example through a tactical surprise) and then swiftly turn that into a lasting advantage for the remainder of the battle. This in particular is very difficult.


Ideally, the game should yield a higher reward for tactical surprises. Essentially that would reward skill and daring, and punish mediocre play.
I think the most important factor in being unable to turn tactical surprises into decisive advantages is the speed at which warbands can recover through rezzing. Perhaps a longer cooldown or bigger penalty should be applied to resurrections.

how game code will know it was tactical surprise? because of aao or because of healers get hited from behind?
isnt better zerg get debuff to their stats(400% - 40% stats) under aao. byt again we all see how its goues with lotd where is 1 big zerg even after those debuffs ppl still zerg. because its rewarding kill is kill u still get rr and medals. so zerg to not get killed make bigger zerg. or maby its ppl mentality fear leave wc if 2-3wb dont follow u. i dont think its easy to balance around ppl mentality not die, if die bring more around u.
i personally still think bring back old keep lords back. where his hp and damage was based of controlled battle objectives. even 6 man can control battle objectives to split zerg. i understand system was removed of forts and cities. byt now forst dont bring invader and cities happen in certain time. so fighting in orvr is now normal stuff. sowhat if u spend 8h in 1 zone. u still get your tick and loot after lock. we have 2 zones opened same time to split zerg . any ather next zone is same pve dor or t1 wc pushes . yes some zones are good some zones are hated and ppl most time give up tham.

[Caduceus]

how game code will know it was tactical surprise?

This is of course a good question with no easy answers. But if people were to agree that indeed this lack of tactical impact is an issue, it is worth debating what possible solutions there are.

One way to change it might be through changing certain aspects of resurrections. For example, a longer cast-time, or a longer cooldown, or a more severe resurrection sickness.

That wouldn't directly increase the impact of tactical surprises, but it would decrease a warband's ability to recover from them.

[Garamore]

We got 800 kills and defended a fort in EU primetime last night - starting with 100% aao and it sticking between 100% and 40% all night. The fort also started with 140 order vs 80 destro.

It is possible but takes 2-2-2 warbands to do it.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1834278840

[normanis]

how game code will know it was tactical surprise?

This is of course a good question with no easy answers. But if people were to agree that indeed this lack of tactical impact is an issue, it is worth debating what possible solutions there are.

One way to change it might be through changing certain aspects of resurrections. For example, a longer cast-time, or a longer cooldown, or a more severe resurrection sickness.

That wouldn't directly increase the impact of tactical surprises, but it would decrease a warband's ability to recover from them.

i like idea about increased cast times and debuffs. byt how it will stop ppl not bring more ppl. lets say your wb ambush 2wb and surprise atatck, how u stop tham to bring more wbs to join tham? atm with 24 aoe 1 wb cant fight vs many wb because u will get surrounded and wiped because of so big aoe . if lets say previous 9 aoe . 1 wb could outstand pug wbs and even escape or wipe pugs.(very possible also premades). 24 aoe has pluses byt they can also work against u. while 9aoe allow your wb fight vs many. y u can do it also on 24aoe if u have safe zone behind or ather zerg. byt its nothing todo with ambush attacks if u have safe zone or ather wbs behind.
p.s there was addon on old war where u spam on map and show coordinates for your realm about enemy location. its 1 of step to make ambushes work.