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Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

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Ashoris
Posts: 346

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#21 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:22 am

Lileldys wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:07 am This is why I think its shoehorned. Why take a SL/WH over ASW+WL in a melee train grp? You get solid DPS without the downsides of WH Light Amrour and SL Rage Mechanic crutch. Maybe SL/WH DPS is higher but that's not quite relevant in 6v6bruh when I was last playing.
the problem is not that you would prefer an aSW+WL combo over SL/WH but that you would always take a WL/WH or WL/SL combo over the one with the aSW :) (btw not helpful to compare a mdps setup without an armordebuff with one setup that has an armordebuff provided by the added class).

There is no more reliable HD with the aSW in 6vs6 - in assault stance you rely on melee range with aSW to have access to a non cooldown ailment (complicated because you have no snare or snare break except for m2) or have to use glass arrow with a cooldown.
other possibility is to stance dance to skirmish but this again is on a cooldown and also not a good idea if you are just snared /targeted by the other mdps.
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Fenris78
Posts: 788

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#22 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:12 pm

Ashoris wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:22 am the problem is not that you would prefer an aSW+WL combo over SL/WH but that you would always take a WL/WH or WL/SL combo over the one with the aSW :) (btw not helpful to compare a mdps setup without an armordebuff with one setup that has an armordebuff provided by the added class).
You dont rely on armordebuff with 950 WS on assault stance. Its already 68% armor ignore, wich mean the WL armor debuff is only 1500*0.32 = 480, around 12% less target armor on average for your brenefit.
WH armor debuff will be around 300 for you (and for any mdps like slayer or WH himself since they are already near the 75% arpen cap).
Wrist slash debuff + crosscut is about +15% crit for other dps hitting your target. WH is only 80 initiative debuff (+5% crit), provided he doesnt use the other bullet types.

The 10-13% parry strikethrough of WL + aSW is more than enough for vast majority of targets, saving def tanks wich you should not focus, so you wont even need a rampaging slayer (except for smashing tanks obviously).

Finally all other mdps combinations will be "hard-countered" by the first aoe bump from a healer, with more difficulties to catch on (especially for the WH who wants to preserve his Shroud of Magnus over the vanish for speed). While the SW can still snare 65ft away (or 100ft with M2), allowing the party to catch kiting targets easier.

Ashoris wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:22 am There is no more reliable HD with the aSW in 6vs6 - in assault stance you rely on melee range with aSW to have access to a non cooldown ailment (complicated because you have no snare or snare break except for m2) or have to use glass arrow with a cooldown.
other possibility is to stance dance to skirmish but this again is on a cooldown and also not a good idea if you are just snared /targeted by the other mdps.
The SW debuff heal is useable in all stances and spammable, I dont know what you mean by "not reliable". You also have many ailments to place on target, being in range (at least 4) or in melee (4 to 5 with glass arrow and wrist slash debuff), before putting the healdebuff on, so basically it's a 100% uptime healdebuff on your target, and still running 65ft away from you.

Yes, technically you don't have melee spammable ailment, but with so much ailment skills to use, I dont think the glass arrow 5s cooldown would matter that much... ;)

Ashoris
Posts: 346

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#23 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:34 pm

i dont want to derrail the discussion too much but - my non armor debuff comment was regarding the WH/SL combo you mentioned ... not about the aSW combo (because clearly there is an Armordebuff)

2nd - iam sorry if I was unclear - but vs good grps you are perma snared as an aSW and the target get cleansed - so you you dont have a reliable HD simply because you cant apply an Ailment (a prerequisite for the HD) without cooldown on range and you cant rely on melee ailments or stance swap because of the afore mentioned problems with it.
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Martok
Posts: 1840
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Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#24 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:14 pm

BluIzLucky wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:34 am"Shadow warriors are great, just watch my video for proof!" => video unavailable :lol:

Yeah, that particular video was blocked in certain countries due to the primary song utilized, the 1980's song 'What I Like About You'. However, and trust me on this, it is a masterfully crafted video which does prove beyond all doubt Shadow Warriors are great.
Blame It On My ADD Baby...

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zulnam
Posts: 760

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#25 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:20 pm

Martok wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:14 pm
BluIzLucky wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:34 am"Shadow warriors are great, just watch my video for proof!" => video unavailable :lol:

Yeah, that particular video was blocked in certain countries due to the primary song utilized, the 1980's song 'What I Like About You'. However, and trust me on this, it is a masterfully crafted video which does prove beyond all doubt Shadow Warriors are great.
It is. Too masterfully crafted.

Guys, i think we need to nerf shadow warriors.
SW, Kotbs, IB, Slayer, WP, WL, SM, Mara, SH, BG

rejndjer
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Posts: 431

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#26 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:31 pm

wachlarz wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:25 am
Aethilmar wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:25 am
wachlarz wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:48 pm Yes 3k dmg every 5 sec its weak from one skill. But Mara pull make tons of dmg
Awwww...someone's Mara got killed by a SW once. Must have been embarrassing for you to die to a SW.

Honestly the only reason to play SW is to make Destro feel REEEEAAAALLLY bad when they lose to one.

:twisted:
3k dmg Sw make too all targets, because of tac. Mara pull still make 0 dmg. So dont cry about Sw.
how did you pass math in elementary school?

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wachlarz
Posts: 798

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#27 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:23 pm

rejndjer wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:31 pm
wachlarz wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:25 am
Aethilmar wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:25 am

Awwww...someone's Mara got killed by a SW once. Must have been embarrassing for you to die to a SW.

Honestly the only reason to play SW is to make Destro feel REEEEAAAALLLY bad when they lose to one.

:twisted:
3k dmg Sw make too all targets, because of tac. Mara pull still make 0 dmg. So dont cry about Sw.
how did you pass math in elementary school?
https://imgur.com/a/d2f4OwP

Ashoris
Posts: 346

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#28 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:06 pm

wachlarz wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:23 pm
rejndjer wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:31 pm
wachlarz wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:25 am
3k dmg Sw make too all targets, because of tac. Mara pull still make 0 dmg. So dont cry about Sw.
how did you pass math in elementary school?
https://imgur.com/a/d2f4OwP
crit with vengueful vs a target with low tough i would say :)
Warhammer Return of Reckoning
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WaR -dead-
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wachlarz
Posts: 798

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#29 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:30 pm

Ashoris wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:06 pm
wachlarz wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:23 pm
rejndjer wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:31 pm

how did you pass math in elementary school?
https://imgur.com/a/d2f4OwP
crit with vengueful vs a target with low tough i would say :)
What again ? Sw have low crit chance ?

redsunbp
Posts: 70

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#30 » Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:46 am

Ashoris wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:06 pm
wachlarz wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:23 pm
rejndjer wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:31 pm

how did you pass math in elementary school?
https://imgur.com/a/d2f4OwP
crit with vengueful vs a target with low tough i would say :)
Not really, the squishy ones go for 3.4-5k :p

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