HammerGuy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:07 pm
But I am talking about block. I can get 42% block, 52% with a tactic, along with 31% parry, 61% with a tactic. For 10 seconds I can get my block over 100%. And rampage blows through all of it.
Your idea for mitigation is to use an absorb shield or lower the slayer's damage. Challenge is great, except it is gone after three hits, and since I'm guarding a melee dps the aoe from the slayer makes the challenge evaporate in no time. I could use distracting bellow, which is a morale 3. How long will that absorb shield last? Maybe two hits, unless it's the morale 3. Requiring morale 3 to counter a 5-point ability is not balanced. Especially when after 10-20 seconds that 5-point ability will be ready again while the morale will be on a 60 second cooldown.
I guard a marauder. Even with the marauder in sovereign and running monstrosity I will die from guard damage. I can tell when the slayer turns on rampage, not just from BuffHead but because my health is ok and then it just drops. I look at the combat log and my 52% block and 61% parry do nothing.
Since we're talking about WLs and WHs, you know what the difference between them and the slayers is? They require positioning to go through my block and parry. Their guard damage can be blocked and parried. A slayer hits a 5-point ability and my advantage as a tank disappears. Rampage will even ignore Shield Wall. Let that sink in. A 5-point ability will IGNORE MORALE 2 increasing block to 100%.
Well, some defenses work vs slayers and some don't.
You want to continue stacking the ones that don't, what can I say ?
Also, for some reason you seem to think that it's normal to be impossible to kill.
I haven't seen any defenses that work against slayers, other than to stay out of melee with them which is not what tanks are supposed to do.
I'm not looking to be impossible to kill. A tank should be tough, but not impossible. What I'm looking for is to be able to be in melee, as a defensive tank, and not die in less than 10 seconds.
HammerGuy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:07 pm
But I am talking about block. I can get 42% block, 52% with a tactic, along with 31% parry, 61% with a tactic. For 10 seconds I can get my block over 100%. And rampage blows through all of it.
Your idea for mitigation is to use an absorb shield or lower the slayer's damage. Challenge is great, except it is gone after three hits, and since I'm guarding a melee dps the aoe from the slayer makes the challenge evaporate in no time. I could use distracting bellow, which is a morale 3. How long will that absorb shield last? Maybe two hits, unless it's the morale 3. Requiring morale 3 to counter a 5-point ability is not balanced. Especially when after 10-20 seconds that 5-point ability will be ready again while the morale will be on a 60 second cooldown.
I guard a marauder. Even with the marauder in sovereign and running monstrosity I will die from guard damage. I can tell when the slayer turns on rampage, not just from BuffHead but because my health is ok and then it just drops. I look at the combat log and my 52% block and 61% parry do nothing.
Since we're talking about WLs and WHs, you know what the difference between them and the slayers is? They require positioning to go through my block and parry. Their guard damage can be blocked and parried. A slayer hits a 5-point ability and my advantage as a tank disappears. Rampage will even ignore Shield Wall. Let that sink in. A 5-point ability will IGNORE MORALE 2 increasing block to 100%.
Well, some defenses work vs slayers and some don't.
You want to continue stacking the ones that don't, what can I say ?
Also, for some reason you seem to think that it's normal to be impossible to kill.
I haven't seen any defenses that work against slayers, other than to stay out of melee with them which is not what tanks are supposed to do.
I'm not looking to be impossible to kill. A tank should be tough, but not impossible. What I'm looking for is to be able to be in melee, as a defensive tank, and not die in less than 10 seconds.
i made an article on how to counter certain class meccanics in past;
bw/sorc multiple base values by a lot so you either stack res and reduces the whole thing the more you can or you hit the base values before it get multiply, if you multiply 0 x 250% it still do zero.
the same thing apply to slayer , the slayer multiplers are crit and meccanic rage. Considering, as chosen, the main melee aoe treath are slayer you need to reduces the ammount of parry you spec (not block) , considering you can have by mastery a 50% that go into 60% with sov you really want to upgrade that just by 10-15%, values around 70%; it saves a lot from rampage shenanigans in term of renown spent.
that goes per save points here and there now it cames how reduces the slayer dmg, considering it has normal crit multipler and rage dmg multipler what you wanna do is stack crit chance reduction and raw dmg reduction.
You really want to get higher hardly concession as possible if you want counter slayer dmg on chosen, different approach is used on BG stack tough to reduces base stats pre multipler. It really depend on tank, on chosen you stack more hardly concession less armor and stack avoidance in jewelry.
The resistences loss vs bw from jewelry by having genesis and such instead wind set is being covered by speccing more into hardly concession; the same goes for amor since hardly conession cover both armor and res dmg type you can use itiem and talisman that would eb aimed to raise those 2 into other things. I have to say the chosen is likely to have the harder itiemization logic out of the 3 destru tank.
usually for destru tanks and healer, you want to stack high ammount of crit chance reduction, because wl/wh have 50% crit dmg tactic but no crit chance increase... that mean that you remove 50% of their potential total dmg by simply block em from crit you.
This also help and is requried vs slayer, so basically by countering slayer you will counter everything melee related equally if not more ond estru side.
Bw usually get counter by overstack corporeal above the debuff values so 641+350 = 990 (and disrupt around 70-80%) since is harder block their chance to crit.
2h bg for rvr usually can reach higher values of dmg reduction than chosen due benefith from chosen party buff plus malekit bulwark, a toughness and armor build cover the physical dmg department. Where 2h bg in rvr get badder than s+b chosen is in funnel, a s+b tank will alwasys be better because it have passive avoidance style skill>/buff etc, bg tough can be tankier require to be in melee range to buff etc something is hard while pushing trougyh funnels with ppl having high avoidance aswell.
Well, some defenses work vs slayers and some don't.
You want to continue stacking the ones that don't, what can I say ?
Also, for some reason you seem to think that it's normal to be impossible to kill.
I haven't seen any defenses that work against slayers, other than to stay out of melee with them which is not what tanks are supposed to do.
I'm not looking to be impossible to kill. A tank should be tough, but not impossible. What I'm looking for is to be able to be in melee, as a defensive tank, and not die in less than 10 seconds.
i made an article on how to counter certain class meccanics in past;
bw/sorc multiple base values by a lot so you either stack res and reduces the whole thing the more you can or you hit the base values before it get multiply, if you multiply 0 x 250% it still do zero.
the same thing apply to slayer , the slayer multiplers are crit and meccanic rage. Considering, as chosen, the main melee aoe treath are slayer you need to reduces the ammount of parry you spec (not block) , considering you can have by mastery a 50% that go into 60% with sov you really want to upgrade that just by 10-15%, values around 70%; it saves a lot from rampage shenanigans in term of renown spent.
that goes per save points here and there now it cames how reduces the slayer dmg, considering it has normal crit multipler and rage dmg multipler what you wanna do is stack crit chance reduction and raw dmg reduction.
You really want to get higher hardly concession as possible if you want counter slayer dmg on chosen, different approach is used on BG stack tough to reduces base stats pre multipler. It really depend on tank, on chosen you stack more hardly concession less armor and stack avoidance in jewelry.
The resistences loss vs bw from jewelry by having genesis and such instead wind set is being covered by speccing more into hardly concession; the same goes for amor since hardly conession cover both armor and res dmg type you can use itiem and talisman that would eb aimed to raise those 2 into other things. I have to say the chosen is likely to have the harder itiemization logic out of the 3 destru tank.
usually for destru tanks and healer, you want to stack high ammount of crit chance reduction, because wl/wh have 50% crit dmg tactic but no crit chance increase... that mean that you remove 50% of their potential total dmg by simply block em from crit you.
This also help and is requried vs slayer, so basically by countering slayer you will counter everything melee related equally if not more ond estru side.
Bw usually get counter by overstack corporeal above the debuff values so 641+350 = 990 (and disrupt around 70-80%) since is harder block their chance to crit.
2h bg for rvr usually can reach higher values of dmg reduction than chosen due benefith from chosen party buff plus malekit bulwark, a toughness and armor build cover the physical dmg department. Where 2h bg in rvr get badder than s+b chosen is in funnel, a s+b tank will alwasys be better because it have passive avoidance style skill>/buff etc, bg tough can be tankier require to be in melee range to buff etc something is hard while pushing trougyh funnels with ppl having high avoidance aswell.
I appreciate you spelling it out.
What you're saying is to stack toughness, crit reduction, and armor/resists?
What exactly is the counter to rampage, since guard damage is not mitigated in any way and cannot be avoided when the original attack is undefendable?
I haven't seen any defenses that work against slayers, other than to stay out of melee with them which is not what tanks are supposed to do.
I'm not looking to be impossible to kill. A tank should be tough, but not impossible. What I'm looking for is to be able to be in melee, as a defensive tank, and not die in less than 10 seconds.
i made an article on how to counter certain class meccanics in past;
bw/sorc multiple base values by a lot so you either stack res and reduces the whole thing the more you can or you hit the base values before it get multiply, if you multiply 0 x 250% it still do zero.
the same thing apply to slayer , the slayer multiplers are crit and meccanic rage. Considering, as chosen, the main melee aoe treath are slayer you need to reduces the ammount of parry you spec (not block) , considering you can have by mastery a 50% that go into 60% with sov you really want to upgrade that just by 10-15%, values around 70%; it saves a lot from rampage shenanigans in term of renown spent.
that goes per save points here and there now it cames how reduces the slayer dmg, considering it has normal crit multipler and rage dmg multipler what you wanna do is stack crit chance reduction and raw dmg reduction.
You really want to get higher hardly concession as possible if you want counter slayer dmg on chosen, different approach is used on BG stack tough to reduces base stats pre multipler. It really depend on tank, on chosen you stack more hardly concession less armor and stack avoidance in jewelry.
The resistences loss vs bw from jewelry by having genesis and such instead wind set is being covered by speccing more into hardly concession; the same goes for amor since hardly conession cover both armor and res dmg type you can use itiem and talisman that would eb aimed to raise those 2 into other things. I have to say the chosen is likely to have the harder itiemization logic out of the 3 destru tank.
usually for destru tanks and healer, you want to stack high ammount of crit chance reduction, because wl/wh have 50% crit dmg tactic but no crit chance increase... that mean that you remove 50% of their potential total dmg by simply block em from crit you.
This also help and is requried vs slayer, so basically by countering slayer you will counter everything melee related equally if not more ond estru side.
Bw usually get counter by overstack corporeal above the debuff values so 641+350 = 990 (and disrupt around 70-80%) since is harder block their chance to crit.
2h bg for rvr usually can reach higher values of dmg reduction than chosen due benefith from chosen party buff plus malekit bulwark, a toughness and armor build cover the physical dmg department. Where 2h bg in rvr get badder than s+b chosen is in funnel, a s+b tank will alwasys be better because it have passive avoidance style skill>/buff etc, bg tough can be tankier require to be in melee range to buff etc something is hard while pushing trougyh funnels with ppl having high avoidance aswell.
I appreciate you spelling it out.
What you're saying is to stack toughness, crit reduction, and armor/resists?
What exactly is the counter to rampage, since guard damage is not mitigated in any way and cannot be avoided when the original attack is undefendable?
the only direct counter to rampage is the shatter, even with the randomness it came from; as said above with a tank you want to set up your defense according to it (dmg reduction instead avoidance) which suck but it's the only way to substain slayer damages.
Different tanks have different methods to reduces a parth of the calculation formula. Another indirect counter to slayers is a dmg return build, on chosen they work nice in city. 300-700k of dmg in fought instance is exepected even if going def + dmg return stuff.
In less zergy eviroment such city you can opt to swap armor potion for spike potion, both chosen and b.ork can do it.
Tank atm dont even have the worst dmg reduction proportionaly to its role on destru side once sov gear; it's probable dok atm....
From time to time (2-3 times a year for 2 years now) I try to come back with friends, to get absolutely wrecked, watch my friends go play order and then we stop playing because it doesn't look fun for us to be there.
This time I am not really sure, whether I have witnessed a huge change in Destro mind, or fall of the game, because literally few times in last two weeks I've been RvRing and I have witnessed these bizzare situations:
1. Destro only roams - When asked why no one wants a siege, they say "Because they got slayers and there is no point to try to turtle vs them"
2. Tries siege and gets utterly wrecked because slayers and BW just wipe out all in turtle, even when they have lesser numbers
3. Runs away without trying to fight - WB assesses if "balanced" slayer is present, and just avoids fighting. And then Order sends toxic messages about us being cowards lol, this killed me. Sir would you like to not stand a chance? - No - <toxic spam starts>
So my RoR experience looks like this: Log in>go to RvR>If only few order are against huge Destro>play because it's free RR>If too many slayers> go AFK or run around carrying packages to see if situation changes
It's fun to play a pvp game, but fun ends when your victories are either when you are totally dominating opponent, so not fun at all, or on Scenarios.
