Nerf

[bodebr11]

I know there are appropriate places to post balance/class proposals,
i just want to speak my opinion on balance around 6v6 at the moment.. as i feel the people that are pushing and working on class balance are not really playing the game in those areas.. where majority of the competitive gameplay goes on. Granted i know the devs are playing the game ( in also 6v6 sometimes) but i cant help but feel that those decisions are made from very far away and not actually from experience.. and when i say experience, im sure each dev has played each game mode within the game more then once, but once every couple months is NOT good enough for the people that actively play these game modes.

Suggestions

Remove Talebec Dam from ranked: this is a very major one as majority of the playerbase has begged for this map to be removed with literlly any other map in the game..

Choppa M4: choppa m4 wasnt really abused as much before ranked got more serious, sure the game has always been morale meta. But you cant say there were choppa m4 spammers a year ago in 6v6. I think its kind of a issue that even lifetap abilities cannot be bypassed during choppa m4..where excom you can sill lifetap heal through the excom ( for snb healers).. with a choppa m4 , a talon from a zealot and m3 50% crit from the WE and the right CC.. its pretty easy to kill anything you want. Without any sort of resistance on the opposing team. The most you can do in that situtation is pop m4 from the receiving team ( maybe absorb m3 from heal) and hope for the best. That is just a bit overpowered from the opposing team..

Witch Elf OYK: again , this ability wasnt abused as MUCH as it was until people starting figuring out these insane compositions on destro to abuse WE's m3 / oyk. When you match this with Choppa M4s and Zealots, they basically can have a morale drop ready every 2 minutes. And when that happens you can actually do nothing but hope you saved your defensive morales to fend off enough to sustain again.

I know these arent very descriptive analyses , but this has been going on for months in the 6v6 scene and not one change is done about it. Except when you look onto the grouped leaderboard , you see the exact composition im talking about. Then people just say " well there a good team / they are top players" when really if you take those morales off the board it becomes a bit more balanced imo.. tell me what classes on order can output the same type of morale damage/ coordination?
You will maybe get lucky with double slayer against them because.... double slayer destroys everything right?
Well no one wants to play double slayer all the time just to face off against those types of compositions , even though that may be the only option..

Conclusion = nerf choppa m4 for lifetap abilties to bypass ( like excom ) , REMOVE TALEBEC DAM FROM 6v6 MAP ROTATIONS , reduce morale gain from OYK

to clarify , i am not a master at all in this matter . i speak from multiple months of experience playing against this composition.. and surely it kills the motivation for other teams to play 6v6 with metas like this one as we see with this win trading going on now..

thank you

[Tanocio]

No need to nerf choppas m4..
Choppas by far the worst mdps atm for solo ranked. Remove choppas m4, and they have nothing ? Slayer miles ahed.

+ most WEs use AW + witchbrew spec for ranked, ive seen maybe Krima only using OYK
WH have the same morale gain on DG.. and guess what? they dont even use it.

[bodebr11]

i never said to "remove" choppa m4s,
just make them identical to excom for lifetap abilties to still be effective while a choppa m4 is up..
krima is a really bad example for this btw, ive seen him 0 times in group ranked and maybe in some solo q.. but this is not about SOLO Q.
this is about GROUP Q.
Advarka / Meera are a better example , 100% advarka uses it for group q and most likely Meera does if he is paired with a choppa to increase morale gain for choppa m4

you cant really compare the WH ability DG to WE's OYK , sure they both give morale gain but one is a aoe KD and one is a st KD, do you really think WH's are going to run aoe KDin 6 to get there morale gain? plus the damage difference between the two.. please

if you played group q , you would know about 70% of the core teams that are playing , have this composition and abuse exactly what im talking about. Im not blaming the players using that composition of anything negative either.. but how can group q attractive new teams with easy compositions like this.

Also give RP m1 armor debuff and remove the armor debuff tact.. imagine i have to sacrafice a core tactic to gain a armor debuff that i have to also be 70ft in range off, whilst a zealot just switches 1 morale for another no problem.

[Tanocio]

Dont slayers have the same morale ?

DG its not AOE KD.. its ST and 100% mirror to oyk.
DMG wise ok, OYK could hit harder since its 2 hits. However base dmg on tooltip its mirrored.

Slayers + WH could do the same thing, just not as fast since there is no choppa fast.

[hellc95]

there is a racial tactic that literally make 4/6th of a double slayer group practically immune to kd and your problem is choppa m4 and oyk?

[CyunUnderis]

Which Choppa M4 are you talking about ? We'z Fightin' Betta ?

[bodebr11]

Dont slayers have the same morale ?

DG its not AOE KD.. its ST and 100% mirror to oyk.
DMG wise ok, OYK could hit harder since its 2 hits. However base dmg on tooltip its mirrored.

Slayers + WH could do the same thing, just not as fast since there is no choppa fast.

No, slayer do not have the same morale.
slayer's m4 on mid tree is 50% INCOMING healing for 10 secs
choppas m4 on mid tree is 50% ALL HEALING (including lifetap) for 10 secs

Ah correct about DG tho, it is ST KD. Even still, not many WH's will believe that running DG compared to EW , BAL is stronger.. you have to sacrafice way to many strong abilties / tacts to even make it work. i think you miss my point here tho. Theoretically, you can do the same thing on order. Except for the slayer m4, but no one is running morale pump on WH for 6v6s.. and surely no one is running WH / SLAYER for it either.
So because the order has it too. your answer is why not run the same exact way on order? Well its a simple answer, Slayer and WH does NOT work together thats why no one does it.

[Morradin]

No need to nerf choppas m4..
Choppas by far the worst mdps atm for solo ranked. Remove choppas m4, and they have nothing ? Slayer miles ahed.

+ most WEs use AW + witchbrew spec for ranked, ive seen maybe Krima only using OYK
WH have the same morale gain on DG.. and guess what? they dont even use it.

The WH morale gain is also a drain. The problem is DG is pointless in any scenario, let alone ranked. (MY opinion)

For a WH to keep destro drained and their team boosted they need to spam DG, and that does not have the power to be a killing finisher. This makes the WH nothing more than a support class. Fine in WB play or open RvR 6 man, but for ranked? Not really.

So, yes, WH stay away from DG most of the time. Especially if they wish to be included in a competitive 6 man group.

[Elemint]

No, slayer do not have the same morale.
slayer's m4 on mid tree is 50% INCOMING healing for 10 secs
choppas m4 on mid tree is 50% ALL HEALING (including lifetap) for 10 secs

Are you sure you know which morale choppa is even abusing?

[bodebr11]

No, slayer do not have the same morale.
slayer's m4 on mid tree is 50% INCOMING healing for 10 secs
choppas m4 on mid tree is 50% ALL HEALING (including lifetap) for 10 secs

Are you sure you know which morale choppa is even abusing?

its the only morale that a choppa will use at m4.. so yes
tell me another morale a choppa actually abuses?