Return of Reckoning

Yeah, as others mentioned, it's a bit weird of a comparison with a lot of disclaimers beyond the one you put.
Like is somebody with 1 win and 20 loses really better than somebody with 0 wins and 2 loses?

The only meaning I think you could stretch out of this, is maybe the classes at the top play ranked very similar to all other content and are more forgiving, while the ones at the bottom don’t, meaning unprepared BW/Sorcs have a higher chance of never landing a win before giving up.

Now hold on a minute. Before we dismiss these numbers as "meaning nothing":

Does the fact that, for example, almost 75% of Magi and well over half of Engineers, Sorcs and BWs attempting Ranked were unable to secure a single win not raise some questions?

As I noted earlier, there is a strong correlation with class. So what causes this? Are these classes weaker? Harder to play? Is it all coincidence and small sample size in a perfectly balanced game?


Also, earlier it was noted that there are a lot of variables which may influence these statistics.

While that is certainly true, one would (at least initially) assume that these variables are the same for all classes. Perhaps they are not, but then a case needs to be made for why they are not.

Caduceus wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:24 am Does the fact that, for example, almost 75% of Magi and well over half of Engineers, Sorcs and BWs attempting Ranked were unable to secure a single win not raise some questions?

This alone says nothing because you see not how many ranked games they played.
For a long time ranked was included in "que all" which leads to unwanted but played games, of course those are usually not won.

When you exclude all players with, let's say less than 10 games played, your initial values will probably almost even out.

Kabuco wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:29 pm

When you exclude all players with, let's say less than 10 games played, your initial values will probably almost even out.

The same measurement, but excluding all players with less than 10 games played. Does it sketch a different picture?


1. Ironbreaker: 39/77 = 50.6%

2. White Lion: 23/47 = 48.9%

3. Runepriest: 50/104 = 48.1%

4. Slayer: 48/101 = 47.5%

5. Blackguard: 38/81 = 46.9%

6. Knight of the Blazing Sun: 38/81 = 46.5%

7. Swordmaster: 29/64 = 45.3%

8. Warrior Priest: 56/133 = 42.1%

9. Zealot: 47/114 = 41.2%

10. Shaman: 40/106 = 37.7%

11. Chosen: 41/114 = 36.0%

12. Discipline of Khaine: 45/129 = 34.9%

13. Witch Elf: 24/73 = 32.9%

14. Archmage: 21/64 = 32.8%

15. Marauder: 23/74 = 31.1%

16. Black Orc: 19/66 = 28.8%

17. Choppa: 21/74 = 28.4%

18. Witch Hunter: 14/53 = 26.4%

19. Shadow Warrior: 11/43 = 25.6%

20. Sorceress: 7/31 = 22.6%

21. Squig Herder: 12/53 = 22.6%

22. Engineer: 8/39 = 20.5%

23. Bright Wizard: 6/37 = 16.2%

24. Magus: 2/23 = 8.7%


Again, I did these measurements manually, so it is possible I made an error somewhere. If you find one, please let me know and I will change it.

that some biased statistics u are showing, irrevelant and out of contexte

siglade wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:43 pm that some biased statistics u are showing, irrevelant and out of contexte

This is just data , in no way biased towards anything. If you wish to make this claim, make a proper argument as to why you believe these numbers to be biased.

It is also not taken out of context, because I did not even provide a narrative to go along with these numbers. I just showed them for people to draw their own conclusions.

Just because you do not like the data that is being shown, does not make it faulty.

I don't know if they have recordings of every SC result but that's the data that could be used for more insight.

e.g. what is the usual (median) damage / heal / protection of each class

Because with only win/loss you can't tell much. Let's assume you have one overpowered dps class that results in lots of winning... The tanks and healers and all other dps that where in there would get the win aswell. After some time you might have tanks and healers with lots of wins and you might think they are good classes but the reason for winning was another one. This is just an example. Same would be true with an overpowered healer but dps have the most impact on the outcome. No dps, no killing.

You just can't say from win/loss alone what happened and what was the reason for that.

Justina wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:34 pm I don't know if they have recordings of every SC result but that's the data that could be used for more insight.

e.g. what is the usual (median) damage / heal / protection of each class

Because with only win/loss you can't tell much. Let's assume you have one overpowered dps class that results in lots of winning... The tanks and healers and all other dps that where in there would get the win aswell. After some time you might have tanks and healers with lots of wins and you might think they are good classes but the reason for winning was another one. This is just an example. Same would be true with an overpowered healer but dps have the most impact on the outcome. No dps, no killing.

You just can't say from win/loss alone what happened and what was the reason for that.

Now imagine you take every character who's won at least one game and call that statistics.

At least we have proof that all careers in the game has won at least one ranked SC now.

would be interesting to see how many of those "top" classes were played by same players. IE one player = multiple classes with success. As a great player would probably be great on any class. How many "great" competitive players only have 1 class they play ranked in?

Justina wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:34 pm I don't know if they have recordings of every SC result but that's the data that could be used for more insight.

e.g. what is the usual (median) damage / heal / protection of each class

Because with only win/loss you can't tell much. Let's assume you have one overpowered dps class that results in lots of winning... The tanks and healers and all other dps that where in there would get the win aswell. After some time you might have tanks and healers with lots of wins and you might think they are good classes but the reason for winning was another one. This is just an example. Same would be true with an overpowered healer but dps have the most impact on the outcome. No dps, no killing.

You just can't say from win/loss alone what happened and what was the reason for that.

Well that's exactly what the data is showing:

Slayer+WL with KotBS/SM/IB with WP/RP are basically the setup with the highest win rate. This means that to the surprise of absolutely nobody these classes are overperforming. AM just happens to not be a popular pick for a healer, but we can also see that is the next choice for a healer if there's no WP or RP available. As for the rest of order DPS they're at the bottom, which is not a surprise either.

And Caduceous is correct, this is not an opinion, it's a clear statistic, you can pull all the mental gimnastics and anecdotal situations you want, at the end of the day this is how ranked looks, and nothing that you want to make us believe changes this. It's not only ranked either, it's also the same in cities. This is clearly the elephant in the room, but let's keep ignoring it; Everything is fine with Slayer and their henchmen.
Just as everything is fine with the rest of underperforming classes. Want to win ranked in order? Make a slayer. Want to have damage as KotBS to add pressure? Just roll an IB. Want to add pressure as a tank on destro? Just roll a DPS. Everything is fine.