[Ranked]Let's fix ranked games before they die.

[Caduceus]

Solo ranked is compelling? LOL good one, did u ever play it?

I think it serves a rather small segment of the population.

What segment would that be?

There's over 1,500 seperate characters who were willing to give Ranked a shot. It'd be generous to assume even 10% of that is still playing.

Every time that group shrinks, will you assume that apparently they were not part of the "small segment" that Ranked is supposedly serving? What does it take for you to admit that Ranked has serious flaws that are stopping it from developing a healthy player base? Flaws that can be mended, if only they were acknowledged.

The Ranked playerbase isn't small, but the current system managed to scare the majority off. The players that are left are vocal and passionate. Even the most successful Ranked players will tell you the glaring flaws, and many discussions have been had about possible solutions. The problem is not the playerbase. The problem is the system.

Start listening.

[Elemint]

The solo ranked system currently in place is pretty much all you can possibly do to make it work. I really don't see these glaring flaws that solo ranked system has... i only see the playerbase issues. Yeah, matches have people of wildly variable skill levels, you cannot consistently carry yourself out of 0 MMR bracket, some games are lost from the start on composition, some games are lost from the start cause of 1 player - it's nothing new to anyone who's ever played a ranked match in any modern game. It's a problem of the playerbase, and of the game's core design. The game is not designed with a solo star in mind. If you like the mode so much but don't like these issues, make a group and que for group ranked, someone will always form on the opposite side.

[cheepcheep]

My thoughts on ranked solo,

I have never even been able to do even one ranked game as the games never pop for me, nor does it show you a timer for how long the Q will be.

ranked should be a clone of wow arena.

6v6, 3v3

No points system to win as the games take to long which makes the Q to long. The win system should be when all the enemy team is dead the other team wins. Create 3 or 4 small arena maps based on what assets are in the game currently.

[dalen]

Ranked is having some serious problems. I think the MMR requirement indeed needs to be removed, for several reasons.

The first, obvious reason is that players need an incentive to queue, even if they or their class cannot get above 1000 MMR. If this incentive is not in place, these players will simply realize there is no point and stop playing.

Every class is able to get above 1k MMR. Some might be better at it sure, but it is doable on any class.

This is also why there's rewards for being in top 4 of a certain class, regardless of overall leaderboard position.

But even more rewards for losing isn't the way to go really IMHO.

Second, because of class balance and how easily the system can be abused MMR is a bad reflection of the player's skill. Therefore it makes no sense to lock rewards behind MMR.

Further, match making needs to be made functional. Brackets are the most obvious solution.

The lack of seperation of players in different skill/gear categories does three things that are killing Ranked.

First, low skill players become the weak link in many of their games and cause "loss by default". Terribly frustrating and demotivating for both the low skill players and the players they are getting matched with.

Second, for higher skill players, especially those below 1000 MMR who can still get matched with 0 MMR players, the match making becomes Russian roulette where a match with a low skill player on your team can throw a lot of hard work down the drain.

Third, the huge window of MMR in which players can get matched together allow for fishing for easy matches, which in turn leads to queue stacking and cross realming and maybe worse (intentional throwing?). This conflicts with everything a ranked game mode is supposed to be, AND with the idea of locking rewards behind MMR.

Bracketing is essential, because the mismatching is rapidly pushing people out of Ranked.

Brackets cannot solve all issues, but they might reduce their impact to more acceptable levels. A beginner bracket (0-250, for example) seems like the bare minimum.

Yes, it will increase queue time, but if this situation is left unchanged there will not be queues anymore period, because Ranked will likely die.

Also, never let "We are a small community" become a valid excuse for this obviously flawed system. Over 1500 different characters have given Ranked a chance. We had more than enough people willing to give Ranked a shot. We lost them because the system is BAD.

We have tried strict bracket system for a few weeks, it didn't work well. The details are in this patch note: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=45160&start=30 As you can see most of the comments are complaining about brackets.

The current system is more like a soft bracket system with overlapping brackets. Players at 0 MMR cannot be in the same match as a player with 1000+ MMR. Then if there's many more ongoing games it will shrink the matchmaking further, eventually trying to have all players in a match within 300-400 MMR from each other. This is done entirely dynamically based on queue times and amount of ongoing games.

[Tyrex2017]

But even more rewards for losing isn't the way to go really IMHO.

OK, but don't punish the player for losing. Currently, the loss is greater than the gain. I suggest 0 MMR for a lost scenario. Stop this mechanic: negative (-) MMR for losing

[Fenris78]

But even more rewards for losing isn't the way to go really IMHO.

It's not so much about "more rewards", than keeping the players queuing even after defeats. If you incentivize the will to play with no "penalty" to mmr, players can actually see their progress, and even if it will take much longer, they know that in the end their efforts, even losing constantly, are still worth something.

Exactly like RvR and scenarii, you got minimal rewards, and you are not penalized for losing against stronger opponent. It just take much longer to earn renown and/or currencies, and you are still encouraged to play better, either to make matches more fun (since you will focus less on the win/lose) or ease the grind (if you're aiming for stuff).

Currently the ranked system is not encouraging the best efforts, even against stronger/more organized team ; plus the randomness of the comp, and the unbalance between classes make the system inevitably inoperant for the "balancing" aspect.
You cannot make the matchmaking perfect, nor making too much restrictions on team comp, only to ensure "fair matches" all the time.

You cannot "fix" neither playerbase nor classes meta through matchmaking only, being brackets or any other form of matching (mmr value is NOT representative for one player's performances, only the reflection of their luck and/or "dodging/sniping" on the queue).

The only thing you can do is to get players a carrot, but they have to feel it's a carrot they can eat at the end.

It can be either by smoothing the mmr gains/losses to have better visibility over what is needed to achieve the goal (displaying negative MMR maybe ?), or rewarding players efforts to get through a difficult/long match, even from a 0-50 loss after 10 mins of fight.

If 6 people are penalized for ONE mistake leading to a very close defeat, it's kinda unfair knowing their tried their best and will be as penalized as if they throwed the match on first engagment.

Currently, getting obliterated after 1 minute 0-500 is exactly the same as fighting without a kill for 9 minutes, then losing from one death at the very last seconds.
It's frustrating and not rewarding at all for the stress and struggle it took, especially for the losing side.

You'll have to reward, at least a bit, for good and fair fights, and give degrees to losses and wins, since clearly it's not the same getting crushed than fighting to death until the end.

Hence my suggestions (in blue, first page, that you probably already saw ).


As for example, I started with 13 loss in a row with my SM, 80+ 2H Full sov and experienced. I know how to switch guard, how to challenge, M2 and such. Yes I probably could have built a more offensive build to support the burst, but I played my role as a tank, and I think with an appropriately high level for ranked.
But for some reason, either being "non meta" comps, unexperienced teammates or more competent/geared opponent, I kept losing matches. It could have been matchmaking getting me with non appropriate matches or a lack of "luck" from my side, but I dont think I was the weak spot here (except one match I struggled with 2 fps, should have restarted before... :/).
Now I'm sitting over 55 matches with about 100 mmr. By this rate, i'll got to 1k after 500 matches, and it's only the start for even the smallest vanity item I could get from it.

I think currently it's not worth the hassle and stress, and while I'm not asking for easy way, at least keep me wanting to do ranked, even it requires me to do 1000 more matches, reward my team efforts to get the victory ; if my team got crushed with ease, I want to know the opponent did no effort either, and will not be greatly rewarded for easy matches. Now you encourage grouping more, and discourage stomping by dodging/sniping/tradewinning/etc.
It could also naturally lessen the "assassin" behavior, or even players xrealming to afk on the opposing side, since the reward for winners will be minimal too.
However, when we fight like berserks for 10 mins, to finally manage one kill, I want to know both teams will be rewarded for their best efforts on a thight win.

Now with a system like suggested, you will get into fight and really do your best to fight as long as possible, knowing the reward will be on par with the efforts it took.
It's I think perfectly doable to reward players based on such criterias as time spent fighting, moment of kill, sustained damage, coordination, etc. And it is also badly required to keep people playing their best instead of quitting after some losses.

[Caduceus]

Every class is able to get above 1k MMR. Some might be better at it sure, but it is doable on any class.

This is also why there's rewards for being in top 4 of a certain class, regardless of overall leaderboard position.

With side-stacking, cherry picking and luck the sky is the limit.

For the person who just queues without trying to play the system? Doubtful.


Maybe you believe this is fine, and that's how it's meant to be played. To each their own opinion.

I think it turns Ranked into a joke. Sorry to put it so bluntly.

But even more rewards for losing isn't the way to go really IMHO.

I'd agree with this. But currently a lot of players aren't rewarded for winning either, which is why many quit.

We have tried strict bracket system for a few weeks, it didn't work well. The details are in this patch note: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=45160&start=30 As you can see most of the comments are complaining about brackets.

The current system is more like a soft bracket system with overlapping brackets. Players at 0 MMR cannot be in the same match as a player with 1000+ MMR. Then if there's many more ongoing games it will shrink the matchmaking further, eventually trying to have all players in a match within 300-400 MMR from each other. This is done entirely dynamically based on queue times and amount of ongoing games.

I don't think removing brackets was the solution. It just needed to be tweaked. The biggest issue is with low skill players, who usually hang out around 0 MMR. There needs to be some kind of filter so that these players can A: learn the ropes (6v6 is not something you can easily practice outside of Ranked, currently) and B: do not form a constant source of frustration for players who are losing by default when they are matched with them.

These default losses are the main reason people stop playing, both low skill and higher skill players. There is nothing as frustrating as seeing your hard work evaporate this way. Being the cause of it and being yelled at is just as demotivating I imagine.

Maybe brackets will increase the queue time. But if the system is capable of providing tolerable match making the population may give Ranked another chance. A healthy playerbase requires enjoyable content. A large amount of RoR players want to play a Ranked style game mode and enjoy evenly matched fights. It is the system that is falling short.

Then there is also class balance, which especially at higher MMR puts certain classes completely at the mercy of the match making, but that is another debate.

[dalen]

Every class is able to get above 1k MMR. Some might be better at it sure, but it is doable on any class.

This is also why there's rewards for being in top 4 of a certain class, regardless of overall leaderboard position.

With side-stacking, cherry picking and luck the sky is the limit.

For the person who just queues without trying to play the system? Doubtful.


Maybe you believe this is fine, and that's how it's meant to be played. To each their own opinion.

I think it turns Ranked into a joke. Sorry to put it so bluntly.

You need a 50/50 win ratio to get above 1k MMR. Not a crazy high requirement exactly.

And if you play ranked group you can get it regardless of MMR, just need to win.

But even more rewards for losing isn't the way to go really IMHO.

I'd agree with this. But currently a lot of players aren't rewarded for winning either, which is why many quit.

You get 20 triumphant emblems for winning, which gives pretty good gear and a BiS event item. That is literally getting pretty well rewarded for winning.

We have tried strict bracket system for a few weeks, it didn't work well. The details are in this patch note: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=45160&start=30 As you can see most of the comments are complaining about brackets.

The current system is more like a soft bracket system with overlapping brackets. Players at 0 MMR cannot be in the same match as a player with 1000+ MMR. Then if there's many more ongoing games it will shrink the matchmaking further, eventually trying to have all players in a match within 300-400 MMR from each other. This is done entirely dynamically based on queue times and amount of ongoing games.

I don't think removing brackets was the solution. It just needed to be tweaked. The biggest issue is with low skill players, who usually hang out around 0 MMR. There needs to be some kind of filter so that these players can A: learn the ropes (6v6 is not something you can easily practice outside of Ranked, currently) and B: do not form a constant source of frustration for players who are losing by default when they are matched with them.

These default losses are the main reason people stop playing, both low skill and higher skill players. There is nothing as frustrating as seeing your hard work evaporate this way. Being the cause of it and being yelled at is just as demotivating I imagine.

Maybe brackets will increase the queue time. But if the system is capable of providing tolerable match making the population may give Ranked another chance. A healthy playerbase requires enjoyable content. A large amount of RoR players want to play a Ranked style game mode and enjoy evenly matched fights. It is the system that is falling short.

Then there is also class balance, which especially at higher MMR puts certain classes completely at the mercy of the match making, but that is another debate.

Currently MMR 0 players can't be matched with MMR 1k+ players, that is a form of bracketing. We might tune that limit later on, that's a possibility. But when there's enough players online and playing it, it is in practise a 0-400 MMR bracket, which is basically "training bracket" like you suggested.

[oaliaen]

Destro players have a serious problem whit guard swap .. But i know devs cant fix it.

=

Then there is also class balance, which especially at higher MMR puts certain classes completely at the mercy of the match making, but that is another debate.

Also agree whit this...not fair imo.

[nonfactor]

As for example, I started with 13 loss in a row with my SM, 80+ 2H Full sov and experienced.

you are a deadweight as a sm in ranked because you lack the most important tool of a tank in 6v6 - punt. punts are how to u get kills in ranked and no amount of spirit damage u can do will make up for the lack of punt.