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Trivial Blows Feedback
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:05 pm
by Ninjagon
I have tested my play against Trivial Blows with my end game high crit Bright Wizard.
The difference between who has TB spec and who has not is HUGE. It is a big nerf to any crit spec character, but it hurt the most BW/Sorc class mechanic.
Situation in WB play is no better. For single target group it is harder to kill any target and it needs more time. Healers are gods now because there is no high burst anymore, except morale drops. Melee death balls are still meta and stronger than before (because you cant kill healers fast enough).
Suggestion: Tone TB significantly down or remove it completely.
Re: Trivial Blows Feedback
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:27 pm
by xyeppp
Ninjagon wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:05 pm
I have tested my play against Trivial Blows with my end game high crit Bright Wizard.
The difference between who has TB spec and who has not is HUGE. It is a big nerf to any crit spec character, but it hurt the most BW/Sorc class mechanic.
Situation in WB play is no better. For single target group it is harder to kill any target and it needs more time. Healers are gods now because there is no high burst anymore, except morale drops. Melee death balls are still meta and stronger than before (because you cant kill healers fast enough).
Suggestion: Tone TB significantly down or remove it completely.
Can you provide some hard data and numbers from your test or is HUGE the only thing we need to know?
Re: Trivial Blows Feedback
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:36 pm
by jughurta69
si quelqu'un peu traduire
Les spe burst sans element defensif sont encore plus penalisé , deja elle sont plus dure a jouer car demande une autre lecture que les spe tanky qui peuvent inc et prendre place au combat en faisant beaucoup moins attention a son positionnement etc..
la possibilité de diminuer par des passif est trop problematique et prejudiciable.
Pourquoi pas un buff de quelques secondes sur long CD , voir une moral 3 sur 8s ou 10s
WE/WH avec en moyenne 35% et un tactic degats crit pour accentué le burst en gros vous leur dites ben désolé pour vous . Vous etes deja fragile , en positionnel mais en plus vos crit ne feront plus rien ...
Re: Trivial Blows Feedback
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:16 pm
by tomato
xyeppp wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:27 pm
Can you provide some hard data and numbers from your test or is HUGE the only thing we need to know?
There is no need for testing this, it can be easily calculated. Assuming full TB:
Sorc/BW with Sov, average bonus critical damage at 100 mechanic points: 160% (45% base + 100% mechanic + 15% Sov bonus)
When the target has full TB: 160%*0.6=96% -> bonus critical dmg is 64% less
Example for a fireball/doombolt, assuming a base dmg of 1000. For critical hits:
Damage on target without TB: 2600
Damage on target with TB: 1960
This is a damage reduction of around 25%.
So if everything in your rotation crits, which with BiS gear tends to happen quit often, you lose 25% damage on your rotation.
TB is basically killing those two classes for all but pug farming.
Re: Trivial Blows Feedback
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:27 pm
by Rydiak
A class that, through its mechanic, could essentially critically hit every attack (even with the target being specced deeply into Futile Strikes) suddenly has counter-play through 45 points of renown point investment. And 45 points of renown for around a 25% damage reduction on critical hits only doesn't sound too extreme of a reduction to me, because that is 45 points of renown that aren't spent on anything else. Sorcs/BWs aren't the only DPS classes in this game, and anyone averaging under 50% crit rate will still be affected more by Futile Strikes anyways (because this version of Trivial Blows was reduced in effectiveness compared to Live values). So if someone wants to spend 45 points of renown to only affect full-class mechanic Sorcs/BWs then they will be severely weakened against all the other DPS compared to if they specced into Futile Strikes.
Re: Trivial Blows Feedback
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:53 pm
by tomato
Rydiak wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:27 pm
A class that, through its mechanic, could essentially critically hit every attack (even with the target being specced deeply into Futile Strikes) suddenly has counter-play through 45 points of renown point investment. And 45 points of renown for around a 25% damage reduction
on critical hits only doesn't sound too extreme of a reduction to me, because that is 45 points of renown that aren't spent on anything else. Sorcs/BWs aren't the only DPS classes in this game, and anyone averaging under 50% crit rate will still be affected more by Futile Strikes anyways (because this version of Trivial Blows was reduced in effectiveness compared to Live values). So if someone wants to spend 45 points of renown to only affect full-class mechanic Sorcs/BWs then they will be severely weakened against all the other DPS compared to if they specced into Futile Strikes.
There already was lots of counterplay towards sorc/bw, if you haven't realized that as warrior priest main, that's worrying.
BiS mdps usually have around 45% crit chance (with possible additional +10% from tank buffs, meaning 55% in total), so no, FS is not better as TB against high end dps players.
Saying that full TB makes you severly weakend against other dps classes is therefore completely wrong.
All dps classes with crit damage tactic are affected significantly.
The classes least affected by TB are the ones without crit damage tactics, e.g. Slayer, Msh, RSW, Magus, Engi.
Re: Trivial Blows Feedback
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:57 pm
by Rydiak
Thanks for the ad hominem response. Very engaging for discussion.
Re: Trivial Blows Feedback
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:05 pm
by tomato
If you use anecdotal evidence to support your arguments, don't expect an engaging discussion.
Re: Trivial Blows Feedback
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:19 pm
by Detangler
Rydiak wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:27 pm
A class that, through its mechanic, could essentially critically hit every attack (even with the target being specced deeply into Futile Strikes) suddenly has counter-play through 45 points of renown point investment. And 45 points of renown for around a 25% damage reduction
on critical hits only doesn't sound too extreme of a reduction to me, because that is 45 points of renown that aren't spent on anything else. Sorcs/BWs aren't the only DPS classes in this game, and anyone averaging under 50% crit rate will still be affected more by Futile Strikes anyways (because this version of Trivial Blows was reduced in effectiveness compared to Live values). So if someone wants to spend 45 points of renown to only affect full-class mechanic Sorcs/BWs then they will be severely weakened against all the other DPS compared to if they specced into Futile Strikes.
Truth right here. 45 points is a hefty investment that could be spent elsewhere to up dodge/disrupt, reduce chance to be crit, or increase healing/damage.
OP needs to take a step back and look at the sacrifices made to make TB noticeable.
Re: Trivial Blows Feedback
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:31 pm
by geezereur
Ninjagon wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:05 pm
I have tested my play against Trivial Blows with my end game high crit Bright Wizard.
The difference between who has TB spec and who has not is HUGE. It is a big nerf to any crit spec character, but it hurt the most BW/Sorc class mechanic.
Situation in WB play is no better. For single target group it is harder to kill any target and it needs more time. Healers are gods now because there is no high burst anymore, except morale drops. Melee death balls are still meta and stronger than before (because you cant kill healers fast enough).
Suggestion: Tone TB significantly down or remove it completely.
This makes me not wanna log in anymore sadface, TB was broken live and its broken here.