Return of Reckoning

Hello!
First of all i'm still a fairly new player, casual, and i realize there is plenty of things i still don't know. That't the main reason why i'm posting this.

I have a lvl 40 slayer as my first character, made it to 40 renown as well while playing a lot of Scenarios (i kinda got tired of RVR)
When i reached renown 30 this class just became really frustrating to play, I knew the Slayer is supposed to be a glass cannon class but my experience so far that Slayer does not have good damage at all, its just plain trash compared to my Black Orc (very fun experience) with 2 hander, Aoe damage is ok i guess but beyond that you cant duel anyone and win, you cant tank any damage even if you are healed constantly, you cant close the gap effectively with one basic sprint ability, You cant burst any healer alone, ranged classes do so much damage on me its ridiculous, everyone aims at you because they know you will die in seconds and cant run away. Best thing ever is when Choppa does a pull on me into the enemy group and i end up dead before reaching the ground lol...
I die in seconds while playing Slayer, please don't reply with "play more defensive", "wait for your opportunity", "menage your rage", "get better gear" because i did all that and nothing helps, to me it seems that class is just useless, why would i take slayer over the offensive tank/bruiser or different kind of DPS that can take a lot more damage and dish out pretty much the same burst, you cant do damage because you are dead most of the time.
Scenario matchmaking is trash atm and plenty of times outside of premades you end up with no healer team or all healer team which makes my slayer even worse.
I feel like i'm not contributing nearly enough to the team no matter what i do, win or lose, no matter how good is my team, when playing other classes i'm usually one of the best in Scenarios. To me all this is frustrating even more because i love dwarfs, the Slayer lore and it is my favorite looking class.

Someone else probably been in this situation, i guess i'm doing something wrong here but nothing comes to mi mind and i'm absolutely clueless on how to improve. i have almost 40% Parry and 12% dodge/interupt, 2500 armor, 7500 health 800 str, 400 WS dual wield Skaven slayer path.

Any help is welcome, thanks in advance!

There is a lot to break down in that post, but first thing is your str and ws are low. Are you running wild gambit?

You shouldn't be trying to "burst healers alone".

Why should you bring a slayer? Because they are good dps.

1v1 is stupid imo, but Slayers are good at vs other melee classes.

it seems like you are asking for help, but don't want a lot of specific suggestions. The last thing I will tell you is that Slayers can be really good if played correctly. So if you are having trouble the problem isn't the class. It could be your group, your gear, how you play it or maybe something else.

Slayer is awsome dps, but squishi like hell, for best performance you need guard bot and 2 tanks. that good start

then:
your str is **** you need to have cap 1050 (at least 1000) with poth
then you need chance to be crited around 0%

and then you need guard again

Your "Pwnage"-experience changes a lot on your way to lvl40. First you are king with lvl15, then drop down the rabbit hole till lvl20, from there on you get stronger and stronger till you drop again. Till 40 you can "abuse" the mechanics of the game and bolster without any problem. You can kill healers, often ungeared and underleveled, without any problem. You deal lots of damage to anything and life is fine.

For Slayer the biggest drop imho comes with lvl40, your stats speak for itself (no WS, low Str). Forget about killing something alone. Forget to go in without the meleetrain. You waited for the enemy moral drop? Yeah, you lose without any chance. The gameplay changes so much, it's frustrating, no question, especially as squishy melee dps.

You can kinda overcome this with a grp or good guild and become the wrecking ball of death with gear, support and experience. Learn to read the flow of the enemy movemet (you're not the only one getting instagibbed in the pulltime of GTDC), flank if flank needed, kite if possible, roam with a smaller grp, and so on. Dude, even most tanks drop in a blink of a eye in good funnels or catched by a pull.

90% of a win or loss is positioning and movement, not gear, grp setup or luck. 10 ft can be the difference of win and loss. I remember my first choppa lvl40, i had the same feeling as you... wanted to chop, no matter what and my death counter gone up like hell, but i got more and more experienced and positioned better and suddenly it was all fun.

You need a guard. If you dont have a guard, you will need 8k wounds and double health pots to survive long at all.

Detaunt any time you get focused and learn to save sprint for getting out of trouble.

You will still die a lot. GTDC will often just eliminate you but there’s nothing you can do to avoid it. You have no interrupt or knockback except a melee range knockdown and the pull cannot be parried. Its an overpowered broken ability so you just have to live with it until hopefully it gets balanced.

Keep your Str above 1k and your WS above 600. Keep an eye out for melee power items as that helps too.

Edit: I should add that I take Stoutness of Stone as 4th tactic now due to the million stuns and knockdowns

All the answers are correct. You can't be kept alive without guard.
If in a wb check constantly if the tank is guarding you. Sometimes it is removed, sometimes the tank doesn't know what guard is.

Ask him politely to put it on you and don't charge in to fast. Your tank needs to keep up.

But yes, if the choppa or marauder pulls you in you are dead.
Sometimes with Armor tactic and immediately AoE detainer, Rage dump and AoE Toughness boost you might survive.

Hold your charge to get out of the krutt, not to get in.

mrkimarko wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:53 pm Hello!
First of all i'm still a fairly new player, casual, and i realize there is plenty of things i still don't know. That't the main reason why i'm posting this.

Your post looks more like a rant than an actual question, if you wanna get advice try to structurize your questions better.

About damage:
The first and the most important thing to do is to get Buffhead Addon with trackers for Guards, Detaunts, Challenges, Distracting Bellow and similar effects. Knowing when your target is guarded or has detauned you, or when you're under dmg reduction effect is crucial to being a good damage dealer, and helps understand your own damage potential better.
There should be a thread somewhere on forums with large list of useful trackers, all you need is just download it and put in some folder (if you use VinyUI then you already have it)

Now another thing is Slayer/Choppa don't have any built-in anti-armor mechanics, so they rely on stacking high amounts of weaponskill (700+) and having a teammate with armor debuff(s).
At 400 WS you have 28% penetration, thats not enough to bring most tanks below the armor cap. You'll be hitting against 75% mitigation just from armor, not counting toughness and other dmg reduction sources.
Many healers use armor talismans, so your damage will be heavily mitigated by them as well.

Slayer/Choppa don't really have a burst, we bring sustained dps and provide constant pressure. The actual damage output is one of the highest in the game when built right, but it takes a group to deliver it. An old saying from Live is a Slayer is only as good as their group is.
Rushing a healer alone will result in being detaunted and ignored, or just blown up with damage.

About black orc:
A reason why it may feel better on Black Orc is probably because order has less tanks and is usually rdps-heavy, which means there's more squishy targets and less Guards/Challenges to reduce your damage.

About duelling:
When it comes to duelling you may as well forget about it, the duel build on Slayer is overall less useful than the standard one, and even in the duel build most classes have tools to outplay you i they know what to do. Outside of duel build you often simply have less tools and less staying power to survive CC burst. Stoutness of Stone tactic helps greatly though.

About stats:
The stats you posted look okay overall, except for very low weaponskill. Without knowing what gear you have access to its hard to give actual advice.
I would say dont try to go for 1k strength until you have Vanquisher/Beastlord and 2 genesis jewelry(ideally Aspect and Remnant) coz you'll probably sacrifice too much of other important stats.

Try to keep your HP around 7.5k, and your Initiative above 250. For weapon skill get Beastlord Cloak/Ring/Pocket combo and slot WS talismans, that should be enough to start with. Further imrpovements may include Subjugator weapons, stronger talismans and maybe WS jewelry.
For RR a good option is Futile Strikes x2 or x3 and high Parry/Dodge/Disrupt, those stack very nicely with other flat bonuses, especially HtL and IB's parry buff. You can also get Wounds if you have any points left.

That won't give you damage, but it will keep you alive.
Its temtping to invest into damage early on to enjoy big numbers, but the trade offs are so big that the experience won't be enjoyable at all.

About playstyle:
First thing is just assume and expect that if you're in range of someone they are going to switch to you. Especially Sorcs and Maguses. If you see Sorc/Magus dots in your Buffhead run for cover and/or use Untouchable to defend against the direct attacks.
Weave in and out, focus over-extending and outpositioned enemies, look for opportunities to push backline (with someone else) and so on.
Assist other dps players on the same target, SwiftAssist addon is very helpful for that. Use Enervating Blow to shut off enemy damage dealers to protect allies and yourself, especially from Sorcs and Witch elves.

Melee classes often require having enough criticall mass of tanks/mdps to form a deathball to protect each other and to focus down targets. This is why having a premade group is so crucial, especially on Order side that has less tanks/mdps.

Ultimately the best thing you can do for yourself is to start building groups.

p.s. this turned out too long... im spending more time on forums than in the game lately

Well I was running today as a Slayer in Praag with a guild Group with 3 IBs, so tripple Guard and double heal on 2 RPs. Men I felt like the snuggle Bear in all that Towels.


Click here to watch on YouTube

Get yourselg the Snuggle Feel too.
Form Groups!

As a wl I think melee dps in sc are simply the worst to play. You get focused a lot, tanks don't bother guarding you, healers (where are they? across the map? dead? running away from enemy?) won't always keep you up and you can't burst down anyone.

Also at 40/40 there is A HUGE dps drop, you should at least get conq set asap. Things got better for me as I took my str >1000. That should be your priority imo.

Also I found that in t3 you could mostly run into the enemy lines well don't even try that in t4, you'll just get kd and instadeleted. Wait for the opportunity and watch your team.
Most importantly don't try to take down people alone, find someone on your team that looks like a good dps and assist him!

growill wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:03 pm As a wl I think melee dps in sc are simply the worst to play. You get focused a lot, tanks don't bother guarding you, healers (where are they? across the map? dead? running away from enemy?) won't always keep you up and you can't burst down anyone.

Also at 40/40 there is A HUGE dps drop, you should at least get conq set asap. Things got better for me as I took my str >1000. That should be your priority imo.

Also I found that in t3 you could mostly run into the enemy lines well don't even try that in t4, you'll just get kd and instadeleted. Wait for the opportunity and watch your team.
Most importantly don't try to take down people alone, find someone on your team that looks like a good dps and assist him!

Thinking about your class objectively - a WL is a flanker and you should probably not just run into the enemy lines you should be the second to engage or third, fourth etc. The problem is a PUG is that flanking takes coordination. Hell anything other than head on collisions takes coordination... which is likely why tanks & healers usually decide PUG outcomes.

Lastly - as another guy said - Why do we pose question is a way that sounds like a rant?


IE - in advice we have people asking "Does Order ALWAYS suck this bad?" Yeah I guess its an advice question, but holy hell is it some wording that is lacking.