Return of Reckoning

Played chosen to 84 rr, got some feedback&suggestions.
For my opinion chosen is most weak and almost useless tank on destro side, even with moralepump tactic they give nothing to party besides auras. Chosen didnt have any specific tactics or abilities for wb/sc gameplay. As wb tank they only used for guard, m4/m3 drop and auras. As sc tank chosen goes for auras, 3 cc abilities and thats all. Lets talk about other tanks of destro. Black Ork got best potential as tank in my view cause they got moralepump as chosen, but got one of the most impressive abilities for it - "Can't hit me", which increase block/parry chance to 50%. It means that BO can get 50+ block without any jewlery, and does not depend of gear as chosen. Other options is " Waaagh!" buff, that can be improved by tactic. Also "Savin' me hide", " Rock 'Ard", " Not in da face!", " ya missed me" etc. As offtank or loldps BO got best base damage of their abilities, %+ for dmage dealt and good survivability as 2h tank. Weak side of BO is % chance to trigger they bellows, bound to weapons on skills thant provide sirvivabilitie for him and party, and lesser cc. Thats why im think that BOs is well balanced and can play on diferent styles.
Black Guard got specific options like buffguard. I didnt play even 40/40 Bg to say something, but many my mates and friends who played for BG said that his fine to sall groups or two peoples party with dpsDoK.
Thats how chosen compares to other destro tanks. No specific tactics beside " dire shielding", no chances to play in 2h spec as offtank ( poor damage, when BO and Chosen in one party to BB BE, its almost all the time BO will be an offtank, just cause they can do more DPS then chosen), no capacity to be a hard disabler/cc tank with good survivability on sc.
Compare to his mirror we can see that the chosen didnt have any of survivability or support options of Kotbs. Yes, chosen got some strong sides in front of Kotbs like:
1) Blast wave didn't bound to weapon you wear
2) Morale pump
3) Parry buff
From all that what Kotbs have:
1) Vigilance. Litteraly all kotbs ive seen have -50% dmg inc. For sure - chosen got 900 armor and -15% dmg inc buff from Oppression with 20s cd, but Vigilance its just buff, you dont need to strike enemies to got it, and this can't be parried/blocked.
2) Fockused mending 15% heal to all party when use "Stay Focused!" for 8 points. Chosen 15%+ heal only for itself tactic for 12 points " Embrace the Winds"
3) Tactics like " Coordination", " Slise through" and " Overpowering swing" that provides many cc/support options. The reason why people didnt take it just cause all of them want to take Vigilance and get detaunt on their tanks. I see that the only one reason to ignore all those debuffs from Path of Conquest.

My suggestion for balance:
1) Bound "Blast wave" to 2h.
2) Tactic "Discordant winds" is useless. But if "relentless" and " Cleave" got base damage increase, change type of relentless to physical, many solo players will take it for doing more dmage. Also "Reletless", "Cleave", "Tooth of Tzench" and "Wihterling blow" must be bound to 2h weapon.
3) Tactic "Embrace the winds" must share heal increase for party when "Discordant instability" active.
4) "Tainted wounds" tactic rebalance like new name and now cause snare 20% to all enemies who was damaged by "Blast wave". Or " Daemonclaw" changed to " new tactic" with same effect but from hit of " Rending blade", increase Rending balde cd to 10-15 seconds.
5) For that careers ( kotbs chosen) increase base damge of abilities. Kotbs and chosen got extreamly low damage when other tankyboys like SM/BO got it extreamly high. Even IB/BG got better damage. If that tactics like " Discordant winds" and " Mighty soul" exist, give them chance to do some damage. 15% more damage from " Mighty soul" must be changed to -20% to heal. For "Vigilance" change to 45 AP, and damge deal reduction to 50%. Also shield requied for Vigilance and Oppression.

I personally don't like changes limiting abilities to snb or two handed. Tanking like healing is a thankless job and not terribly compelling gameplay. I appreciate some flexibility without going to respec. As a snb tank player the changes to long punt in particular make me pretty salty. Although I do see how 2-hand spec needs something unique, but without long punt SnB just sucks.

In my humble opinion chosen is the baseline tank sort of in the whole game; decent, but not great. I think the issue is just that Kotbs is laughably better. Slice through is a good example. The fact that it is a pbaoe snare and not a frontal cone snare is just bonkers. I really have to make a knight. Dire shielding got rabies and was put down, and crippling strikes got a DUI and is currently in country jail, so chosen is now farmbot 5000.

Fey wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:32 am I personally don't like changes limiting abilities to snb or two handed. Tanking like healing is a thankless job and not terribly compelling gameplay. I appreciate some flexibility without going to respec. As a snb tank player the changes to long punt in particular make me pretty salty. Although I do see how 2-hand spec needs something unique, but without long punt SnB just sucks.

In my humble opinion chosen is the baseline tank sort of in the whole game; decent, but not great. I think the issue is just that Kotbs is laughably better. Slice through is a good example. The fact that it is a pbaoe snare and not a frontal cone snare is just bonkers. I really have to make a knight. Dire shielding got rabies and was put down, and crippling strikes got a DUI and is currently in country jail, so chosen is now farmbot 5000.

You gonna love order. They have cookies for every decent tank that joins. Juice reserved for healers that don't try to go DPS

The main gripe with chosen vs the knight mirror as I see it is that knight gets 2 tactics that act as an offensive and defensive tactic for the entire group including yourself while chosen gets no group support tactics, only self dmg/survivability which do little for your team since damage is low and survivability is high already.

2h Chosen could use a bit of group utility tactics on par with knight for scenario play.

Ideas: Morale pump on Parry for 2h, group mitigation or regen buff on bane shield tactic, Crippling Strikes: Crits reduce crit damage by 15% For 15s.

Fey wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:32 am I personally don't like changes limiting abilities to snb or two handed. Tanking like healing is a thankless job and not terribly compelling gameplay. I appreciate some flexibility without going to respec. As a snb tank player the changes to long punt in particular make me pretty salty. Although I do see how 2-hand spec needs something unique, but without long punt SnB just sucks.

In my humble opinion chosen is the baseline tank sort of in the whole game; decent, but not great. I think the issue is just that Kotbs is laughably better. Slice through is a good example. The fact that it is a pbaoe snare and not a frontal cone snare is just bonkers. I really have to make a knight. Dire shielding got rabies and was put down, and crippling strikes got a DUI and is currently in country jail, so chosen is now farmbot 5000.

I can only say - try play chosen in one wb/party for fev months, then take BO and try again.

I play 5 of the tanks. Personally I think IB is on top for snb with a good 2-hand spec. Knight probably better 2-hand from what I know these days. BO good with both, Chosen ok SnB good 2-hand just because of hastened dismissal.

SM and BG are probably best 2-hand. Snb iterrupt styles are underestimated though.

Easiest way to tell if a class underperforms or overperforms: ask what other classes wish they had that only the chosen gets. Anything? Anything at all?

Exactly.

Detangler wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:56 am Easiest way to tell if a class underperforms or overperforms: ask what other classes wish they had that only the chosen gets. Anything? Anything at all?

Exactly.

From my other tanks: Armor appearance, Discordant Winds for a very powerful solo build, Discordant Fluctuation, 25% parry on demand + 25% extra parry on block, that in turn leads to Daemonclaw that is the old Runefang. That's my list. I would settle for the armor appearance though.

Does, Destined for Victory, still have an internal cooldown of ten seconds?
Does, Sprout Carapace, last 30 seconds or 10 seconds?

Quick m4 Sprout Carapace is good if its 30 seconds. It's not if the tactic is still nerfed and the duration as well.

Fey wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:57 am I play 5 of the tanks. Personally I think IB is on top for snb with a good 2-hand spec. Knight probably better 2-hand from what I know these days. BO good with both, Chosen ok SnB good 2-hand just because of hastened dismissal.

SM and BG are probably best 2-hand. Snb iterrupt styles are underestimated though.

Best 2h as offtank or loldps for Destro- Black Ork. 25% crit power, path of Da Brawler tactics and buffs make him probably best 2h tank for doing damage.

Ototo wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:57 am From my other tanks: Armor appearance, Discordant Winds for a very powerful solo build, Discordant Fluctuation, 25% parry on demand + 25% extra parry on block, that in turn leads to Daemonclav that is the old Runefang. That's my list. I would settle for the armor appearance though.

1. Armor appearance - not my problem, this is non gamepley ****. My opinion - no khornezerker armor - no appearance.
2. Discordant Winds for a very powerful solo build. Loled, almost all dmg abilities is spiritual damage, chosen dont need this tactic. Read my first post please.
3. Discordant Fluctuation. Kotbs have On your Guard. But when DF strike back only from magical attacks, OYG! strike back from any damage.
4. 25% parry on demand + 25% extra parry on block. Shield rush with tactic provide 10% block and 15% parry. Block>parry. But ok, this is chosen strong side, untill he dont fight with slayer or bw.
5. Daemonclav/Runefang. Yos, 250 from runefang on parry & 150 from daemonclav on crit.
And what we got? Another nobrain Vigilance kotbs that play only from tanksdetaunt and didnt see what they actualy got. In all build besiede Solar kotb take Vigilance and thas all. No one see that 15% heal+ from Kotbs and 20% heal+ from WP makes all antiheal useless. Playing on sc/wb for 8 month and didnt see any kotbs without it. Super strong build, and you can build it on 40/40.