Return of Reckoning

Edited, I understand most people don't like this discussion

Thanks all, anyway

Still order>destro.

archmage can actualy heal, shaman can just run around

Okay, Order is better than Destro and the Archmage can heal while the shaman can run around, but I'd like to discuss about the Vaul/Da Green path

@Makhs88, you've forgotten to mention that CD for healdebuff for AM is 10second instead of 20 on shama, that AM's puddle defuffs initiative instead of shammies useless elemental resistance and that AM can clear Shammies dots. But you're comparing abilities which nobody uses (neither AMs or Shammies).
In general, AM is stronger class than Shaman, but shammies have charisma

UPD: >>but I'd like to discuss about the Vaul/Da Green path
These trees are dead and require redesign.

We can talk about dps AM/Shammy. Same number of abilities, different kind

We can talk about heal AM/Shammy. Same number of abilities, different kind

I'd like to talk about hybrid AM/Shammy. Same kind of abilities, different number and potency, that's the point. You don't want to use those abilities, you don't have to, but I make good use of them.
Okay, that spec line requires a new design, I agree with it (imho, would be enough that Lifetap abilities could crit on both Heal and Damage % chance, or solely on %heal critical) but meanwhile, balance it

Makhs88 wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:21 am Am I missing something?

class balance is not about comparing paths but whole careers (just do the same work you did with 2 other paths)
moreover you should always keep in mind environment: sham has to deal with 2 rkd (sw and bw), 2 extra punces (sw, sm), for am its just choppa pull. Also am vs magus is better matchup than sham vs engie due to silence.

dshdf wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:51 am

Makhs88 wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:21 am Am I missing something?

class balance is not about comparing paths but whole careers (just do the same work you did with 2 other paths)
moreover you should always keep in mind environment: sham has to deal with 2 rkd (sw and bw), 2 extra punces (sw, sm), for am its just choppa pull. Also am vs magus is better matchup than sham vs engie due to silence.

What silence are you talking about? I know only that on the third line, the same for AM and Shammy..anyway, do you think balancing Energy of Vault cooldown could affect the whole enviroment?
But I don't understand, you say those abilities are bad, and that this is the reason to not improve them.. I changed the thread title, i didn't want to say that the whole Shammy class is better than archmage, my fault sorry

Makhs88 wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:56 am anyway, do you think balancing Energy of Vault cooldown could change anything about the whole enviroment?

i think that both spells are complete garbage and lifetap builds on sham/am are completely useless. What we need is complete redesign of the path(probably completely removing lifetaps from it) but i dont think devs would spend time on such a timeconsuming rewamp.

dshdf wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:15 am

Makhs88 wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:56 am anyway, do you think balancing Energy of Vault cooldown could change anything about the whole enviroment?

i think that both spells are complete garbage and lifetap builds on sham/am are completely useless. What we need is complete redesign of the path(probably completely removing lifetaps from it) but i dont think devs would spend time on such a timeconsuming rewamp.

I agree with it, so rebalancing them a little is a good thing for Vault spec, doesn't affect the enviroment and costs a very little effort