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Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

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BeautfulToad
Posts: 631

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#111 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:13 pm

wargrimnir wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:05 pm Another day, another useless page of off-topic nothingness.
I am going to be honest, your no-nonsense warning about staying on topic immediately being followed by a full page argument about average posts per day and post counts is a 40/80+ meme.

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footpatrol2
Posts: 1093

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#112 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:39 pm

Only thing I agree with is that ID changes from 75% to 60%. I disagree with everything else as it is un-needed.

I agree with the ID change only because it will make the other m4 changes a little more attractive.

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Tiamath
Posts: 57

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#113 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:23 pm

Hello
i think those that had something valuable to add, already did. I guess we should have now some summary / third version of overhaul changes to address after those few cents tossed here and there.
@Devs
how are the changes at the moment? Any suggestions were implemented?
Next stop? The frontline ...
Tiamath - RR83 Blackguard, Khaladh of Kar Khadath Regiment.

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Naharis
Posts: 18

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#114 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:28 am

Grock wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:46 pm Immaculate Defence reduction from 75% to 60% reduction means instead of 400% EffectiveHP it will provide only 250% EffectiveHP, that is almost twice weaker. Just so everyone understands the numbers here.
I don't get why nerf a basic M4 that can still be used in small scale. You can pump the M4 tree without nerfing the basic one imo.

"Proposed - 60% damage reduction for group members within 100' for 10s"

or at least make it 70% or 65% with 15/20s but again i don't see the needing of 15% nerf!
If the numbers provided by Grock are correct this is going to be a heavy coreM4 nerf. :!:
Naharis - Zealot RR 80+
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Arbich
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Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#115 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:22 pm

The Immaculate Defence nerf is ok. So its worth to spec for other m4 while not making them too strong.

The ID nerf would only hurt roaming in openrvr groups. For SCs ID is already an annoyance, this nerf wouldnt change it. An increased duration of ID would be devastating for small scale fights balance.

About the class morales I find kobs flawless defence a bit redundant with ID (even after nerf) also around. The kobs has to give up either stagger, focused mending, dirty tricks or the knockdown for the m4 and get a (maybe) slightly better ID with additional avoidance against some non morale CC. I dont think its worth it.
Arbich-BW/Xanthippe-WP/Schnipsel-AM

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ChicagoJoe
Posts: 254

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#116 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:37 pm

M3 - Clear the Skies

Please consider making it absorb all, not just ranged and spells. Seems that it could be useless in melee charge situations.

Also, IB has no core damaging M3 like the other tanks, just individual absorb. Should have a minor AOE/absorb/snare hybrid like other tanks if losing raze as S&B. (Blade shield, No Escape.)

Thank you for your consideration.
primary IB 8X, EN8X, WP7X, SL7X, KOTBS6X, and a bunch of under rr60 toons on order and destro with other classes.

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Naharis
Posts: 18

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#117 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:45 pm

Arbich wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:22 pm The Immaculate Defence nerf is ok. So its worth to spec for other m4 while not making them too strong.

The ID nerf would only hurt roaming in openrvr groups. For SCs ID is already an annoyance, this nerf wouldnt change it. An increased duration of ID would be devastating for small scale fights balance.
It is fine just like now it is for small scale groups. If it get nerfed is gonna be a nerf for small scale more than zergplaystile.
Naharis - Zealot RR 80+
Nahariz - RP RR 70+
Mhoanaz - Dok RR 80+
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kauyon1
Posts: 103

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#118 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:46 pm

wargrimnir wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:59 pm ...

M1 - Wings of Heaven

Current - Pounce up to 100' feet (really?) to your target. Snare enemies in the area by 60% for 10s
Proposed - Pounce up to 45' to your target, deal 600 damage to enemies within 20' when you land.

Bringing this range down to 45' and adding a bit of AOE splash damage on the landing instead of a vicious 60% snare should bring it in line with M1 effectiveness. Problems with very long movements like this come in two flavors, magically appearing tank elves due to server latency (kind of looks like warping), and the ability to get to places that probably shouldn't be gotten to. 45' is plenty for a front line tank to reasonably hop around.

....

The swap on these is two-fold. First we didn't want to do a flat nerf to WoH, moving it down to M1 makes it more accessible, and allows us to change it as a tradeoff.
Not sure you have gotten proper feedback on this change. I think overall 45' is too short to work with. That's a total and complete nerf. It won't ever be taken as a serious Moral slot. It really needs to be put it to all other leap lengths of 65'.

At 45' it won't be used. Champ challenge will be far more useful in small scale, and you don't use WoH in WBs anyway.
If you are going to remove the very buggy snare, please make sure the damage doesn't also bug.

In most cases, the only reason to use WoH is to catch up to your extremely fast DPS like a WL. The snare almost rarely hits, if at all let alone AOE, depending on server latency at the time. I'd rather not give up an AOE snare (since our class doesn't really have the AOE CC like the other tanks) only to trade for a Damage proc that also doesn't go off.

I like my SM a lot. But WoH is one of the few joys it offers over other tanks.

TL;DR, the distance change on WoH is excessive. Tone it down, but 45' doesn't make sense, unless the goal is to completely nerf a fundamental part of the SM into the ground.

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Grock
Posts: 918

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#119 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:18 pm

Naharis wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:45 pm
Arbich wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:22 pm The Immaculate Defence nerf is ok. So its worth to spec for other m4 while not making them too strong.

The ID nerf would only hurt roaming in openrvr groups. For SCs ID is already an annoyance, this nerf wouldnt change it. An increased duration of ID would be devastating for small scale fights balance.
It is fine just like now it is for small scale groups. If it get nerfed is gonna be a nerf for small scale more than zergplaystile.
Its gonna be a "nerf" to attacking side on a fort as well.
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Arbich
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Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#120 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:21 pm

Grock wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:18 pm
Naharis wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:45 pm
Arbich wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:22 pm The Immaculate Defence nerf is ok. So its worth to spec for other m4 while not making them too strong.

The ID nerf would only hurt roaming in openrvr groups. For SCs ID is already an annoyance, this nerf wouldnt change it. An increased duration of ID would be devastating for small scale fights balance.
It is fine just like now it is for small scale groups. If it get nerfed is gonna be a nerf for small scale more than zergplaystile.
Its gonna be a "nerf" to attacking side on a fort as well.
1. it will be "fine" for small scale scenario after nerf also. It is a shitty morale (basically a pause button) in smale scale sc anyway.
2. yes it might be a nerf for attacking side of fort, but what is the alternative? the goal is to make speccable m4 worth it. means these morales must compete with ID. That means when you let ID as it is, you must buff these morales to insane levels to make it worth for going for them, because you almost always cant spec some nice other abilities when going for these.
This whole morale meta is it, what makes zerg fights kind of dull. There is no need for even more powerful morales. So buffing some morales and nerfing other while keeping the impact of morale abilities roughly the same is a far better balance approach.
Arbich-BW/Xanthippe-WP/Schnipsel-AM

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