Return of Reckoning

Hello everyone. I'm Grunbe the leader of PnP guild. I would like to give my feedback on current orvr system and fort sieges.
PnP, NRM and several pug warbands have tried push campaign to forts this Sunday.

20:00 CET PnP came to praag. After 10-15 minutes we began to siege order keep. Order managed to kill the ram after outer door was destroyed. In consideration to our experience of last few weeks(siege weapons lag, inability to place ram) we moved to TM, that was open. Luckily the keep there had almost two star's. Order decided to sit in praag. They broke keep siege. It took us roughly 20 minutes to take empty keep in TM and push campaign to KV. We got 600 renown for locking TM. 21:10 we went to KV. Took Bo's and began to generate resources since we needed two star to siege. Order still zerged in praag (180 order Vs 178 destro in there. 21:40-50 we were killing lord in KV keep. Again without any meaningful defense. Got 600 renown for it and opened fort. Meanwhile NRM and other destro warbands wiped order from keep in praag. It took us a bit more time due to server lag and praag keep couldn't be taken due to several keep lord resets.
Here I want to point out that we got around 2k renown for locking two t4 zones and spending 2h of our time on working towards a realm campaign goal - open a fort. In my opinion the current rvr system which allows to spawn siege equipment with two stars and reduce renown gains with aao promote passivity and punish any active coordination. We can't siege high populated zones due to siege weapons lag and aren't becoming meaningful rewards for taking an initiative to push two parings in the same time. Basically this system promotes zerging.
Fort siege.
22:00 we entered fort. Our warband was granted reservation and it was good so we could enter in full force. NRM were able to enter too.
First two stages order was very passive. We took all Bo's. Our enemies made one attempt to push to a Bo behind the fort. They had failed and stood inside of their keep for the rest of phase two.
22:30 or so inner door opened and we attempted to take inner keep.
The inner keep siege was difficult due to how narrow was the door in the lord room. After several wipes we tried to pull the lord out and tank him near the door to force our enemies to go out. It worked and we almost wiped them at the end.
It our first fort assault. And in general it was an interesting experience. Both sides had exactly same problems with the lord room door. Basically the side that pushed to the door died.
After all I see few problems in fort fights right now.
Firstly defending side have no interest in coordination and fighting over Bo's in 2d stage. Loosing all Bo's and passively waiting inside of the keep brought them no noticeable drawbacks.
Secondly due to door size in this particular fort it was close to impossible to assault lord room with two warbands under t4 Morales of Tanks since only 8-10 players can enter the room at once what allows the defenders to kill attackers in small waves with all aoe they got. There is no posterndoor or portals so defenders yet again can just passively spam aoe on one entry point without any coordination or tactic.
Maybe inner keeps should have posterndoor to mirror keeps and allow defenders to defend 3d floor in a critical situation. As it is right now defenders have too strong position and attackers must deal with them and the lord in the same time.
23:20 Our enemies fought well and we failed to take the fort. The rewards were okay on this part. We got some renown for killing, medallions and some folk won gold bags.

In the end I would like to thank Devs for their work on this project. I hope that this feedback will help to improve game experience for everybody.
P.s I'm sorry for bad grammar. I hope that you could understand what I wanted to say.

Order zerged in Praag when the fight was even?

I appreciated this post until you started blaming Order players for playing the game.
Would you like forts handed to you and your premade?
Server issues happen, and I'm sorry you and your guild didn't immediately get to Forts, but you act like the goal of all of the players in Praag wasn't to reach forts. They were enjoying their WAR experience by trying to flip the zone for their respected side.

I think it's also good to realize that invader pieces are fairly cheap in comparison to other RVR gear. I believe that purpose is because it's not suppose to be a common thing to consistently reach forts. It's meant to be a more rare event. I could be wrong, but that's at least how it appears.


On a more serious note, the GM's pointed out a work around command for the lag when it began to occur yesterday, so that's a positive note to take.

I agree that fort defense needs a bit of tweaking at least.
I'm sure it's something the devs have been analyzing weekly.

I have an Idea fort fort and BO's

Add 1 more door to acces to lord room.

If attakcer control BO's it generates tick to open that door...

If defenders control BO's it generates tick to keep that door close...

Whoever have more tick win for the extra lord room acces

win / win

HeyImRadee wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:19 pm Order zerged in Praag when the fight was even?

I appreciated this post until you started blaming Order players for playing the game.
Would you like forts handed to you and your premade?

Zerging means stack several warbands on top of eachother. It has nothing to do with dominating.
We don't have any problems with losing and PnP defended keeps and zones with aao as well. I think you don't get the point. It is about playing the game in prime time. Looking a zone is impossible not because of zergs but due to server lag and splitting zerg is not possible due to rvr system
On my side I can say that spending 1h time on moving rams to a keep has nothing to do with playing the game.

I don't wanna burst your bubble, but a lot of Order that day weren't even zerging. I was leading WB's and we were dealing with Destro zergs while splitting for BO's. But I guess that's all part of the game.


The lag is something the devs have been working on and trying to fix.
If it happens in primetime, I think we just need to accept it.
Letting 1 group or faction dictate which zones we need to switch to because things aren't working out makes it a little more one-sided too, at least from what I've seen. I think this is just a lousy situation on a Sunday that will be fixed through dev work in the future.

HeyImRadee wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:35 pm I don't wanna burst your bubble, but a lot of Order that day weren't even zerging. I was leading WB's and we were dealing with Destro zergs while splitting for BO's. But I guess that's all part of the game.


The lag is something the devs have been working on and trying to fix.
If it happens in primetime, I think we just need to accept it.
Letting 1 group or faction dictate which zones we need to switch to because things aren't working out makes it a little more one-sided too, at least from what I've seen. I think this is just a lousy situation on a Sunday that will be fixed through dev work in the future.

As I said I don't have any problems with losing, not being able to take zones or keeps due to lack of coordination, mistakes or insufficient numbers. I would rather spend few hours trying to wipe order warbands on 3d floor or lose the ram to them on their successful defensive push then stay in front of the enemy keep unable to get the doors down due to absence of siege equipment. And it is not only problem of PnP. Every player who are staying in there, be it order player or destruction player, experiencing the same - lack of interaction. Even fighting in the lake when you can't siege is better then this. And maybe that's why after an hour of such interaction people just log off. That's why I see forts rather a positive experience because there is at least an interaction between two sides.

You experience exactly same problems when you are dominating the zone or then numbers are roughly even.
If siege equipment wasn't laging, we would not got to another zone.
What I (as a leader of warband) experience is a lack of meaningful interaction during sieges in the EU prime time because of lag.

HeyImRadee wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:19 pm Order zerged in Praag when the fight was even?

I appreciated this post until you started blaming Order players for playing the game.
Would you like forts handed to you and your premade?
Server issues happen, and I'm sorry you and your guild didn't immediately get to Forts, but you act like the goal of all of the players in Praag wasn't to reach forts. They were enjoying their WAR experience by trying to flip the zone for their respected side.

I think it's also good to realize that invader pieces are fairly cheap in comparison to other RVR gear. I believe that purpose is because it's not suppose to be a common thing to consistently reach forts. It's meant to be a more rare event. I could be wrong, but that's at least how it appears.


On a more serious note, the GM's pointed out a work around command for the lag when it began to occur yesterday, so that's a positive note to take.

I agree that fort defense needs a bit of tweaking at least.
I'm sure it's something the devs have been analyzing weekly.

This post is not aimed at criticising Order players for zerging. Nor does it state they were the only side doing so.

It also doesn't appear to be criticising how quickly forts were reached. Just commenting on issues faced by both sides during prime time and how moving to other zones does not give a reasonable reward when an adequate defense is not present. Irrespective of whether it progresses the faction's campaign goals.

Pretty happy with the progress so far of the fortress. They tried to build a system that was designed with high-lag in mind. It will only get better from here, most defenders don't understand the mechanics (the more casual players) as well they are indeed being tweaked weekly.
For me the concern lies more with defenders leaving RvR early to set up, thus abandoning the final keep defense.
As contribution and loot systems, as well as the fortress lord and mechanics, are ironed we'll see more defensive plays especially if they continue to offer gold bags for fortress defenses.
The way it's set up right now seems to offer a very big risk to use the strategy of abandoning last keep early to setup for Fortress because of the way the balance is weighted to attackers advantage. You don't want to allow for a fortress defense if you can help it, and if your trying to farm invader from defenses your probably going to fail unless there is very strong defense and weak attackers.

As I said I don't have any problems with losing, not being able to take zones or keeps due to lack of coordination, mistakes or insufficient numbers. I would rather spend few hours trying to wipe order warbands on 3d floor or lose the ram to them on their successful defensive push then stay in front of the enemy keep unable to get the doors down due to absence of siege equipment. And it is not only problem of PnP. Every player who are staying in there, be it order player or destruction player, experiencing the same - lack of interaction. Even fighting in the lake when you can't siege is better then this. And maybe that's why after an hour of such interaction people just log off. That's why I see forts rather a positive experience because there is at least an interaction between two sides.

You experience exactly same problems when you are dominating the zone or then numbers are roughly even.
If siege equipment wasn't laging, we would not got to another zone.
What I (as a leader of warband) experience is a lack of meaningful interaction during sieges in the EU prime time because of lag.

This post was much more understanding on the direction you were going for.
I definitely agree with siege equipment needing some alterations with the way lag is currently.
Or an alternative to improve interactions in the current zone in conflict.

This post is not aimed at criticising Order players for zerging. Not does it state they were the only side doing so.

It also doesn't appear to be criticising how quickly forts were reached. Just commenting on issues faced by both sides during prime time and how moving to other zones does not give a reasonable reward when an adequate defense is not present. Irrespective of whether it progresses the faction's campaign goals.

The first paragraph of the opening topic post explains how Order camped Praag with their zerg and broke RVR on Sunday...
I was pointing out that the sides were even in numbers during that day and overall, that paragraph could've been left out, and instead, focusing on addressing the main issues.

I'm glad that the main points of the topic were further explained at least though.