Return of Reckoning

Hello,
I would like to start a debate, or simply hear other player's view on how viable zergbusting is with the tools, tactics, and tricks we got available to us here on RoR. I am sure we have all been on the outnumbered side of a zerg, and many times have we made a laststand in either a lordroom hold, 3rdfloor funnel, or hiding in a BO with a narrow entrance.

But does the game actually allow us to fight "against all odds"? (open question for starting the debate)
With a target-cap of 9 (correct me if I am wrong), current disrupt rates and an endless sea of red names pushing towards you whereever you try to break the zerg, you will eventually run out of moraldrops, ap, or simply get overwhelmed in other words due to many reasons but mainly sheernumbers and constant presure.

Are the outnumbering side supposted to win, whenever they outnumber you enough, or should we be able to break them an make a viable laststand somewhere if its well organized and meet cirtain criteria?
A random example:
One Order warband is fighting 3-4 destro warbands coordinating flanks and using good communication between leaders, to make sure the Orderlings are not finding an even numbers fight to get a foothold in a zone. Should destro be rewarded for their efforts in coordination by zerging down order 3:1, or should there be additional game mechanics helping the outnumbered side? I am not a developer or in any way hired for ballance design, but I can see arguements for eitherside of the case.


As it stands right now, from my very biased point of view as a BW, I find the distrupt rates mixed with zonelocking requirement very hard to find creative ways to overcome situations like above, without it just becomes a numbers game, where you dont always have available numbers to match and fights become one-sided with little to no room for turning the tide.

A few suggestions I personally could see help situations where the outnumbering is too advantageous instead of just "complains":

-Target cap increased with AAO
-Number of BOs required to lock a zone when having above 150%aao increased to 5 (previously 4) this would spread forces out.
-AoE abilties like Fiery Blast still connects their Aoe If the initial target distrupts(personal big on my list for fighting outnumberd)
-Or I could just git gud, right?

Disclaimer: I fully respect how much effort is put into realmleading, and coordinating several warbands and think it should be rewarded. But I also want some sort of counterplay that is not just "bring more numbers".I personally want to give you a fight, and not just log out if we dont have the numbers to match you in the RvRzone.


Please keep the tone respectful towards fellow players and posters, and thanks for reading and potentially joining the debate.

Mah morales should do less dmg overall but have no target cap that way they would matter less vs organized ppl but would still hit pretty good mindless blob. Basically cut the head of the bull cuz anyone hate being ista morales killed but would love some anti zerg instrument.

The idea that aoe target cap being affected by aao sounds reasonable but honestly the bomb WB are a disease in themselves .
Not much fun being hit by a aoe spewing WB. Even if my soc enjoys the fruit of this it’s not high skill levels.
The big problem with zergs is the players unfortunately. Too manny players once wiped a few times by a better WB will not try and understand the problem and address them with tactics instead the Zerg up to kill that group , once one side is heavily blabbing the othe side follows suit.

There were several tries two years ago by aza to build in AntiZerg mechanics.

AoE cannons doing massive damage to tightly packed enemies.
- didn't worked. Zerg took AoE Cannons too.

Special AoE abilities with crazy damage on tightly packed enemies.
- didn't worked. 4 SMs whiped a wb in Lordroom. Zerg or no Zerg.

Reduced Wounds on the overpopulated site.
- Didn't worked as mechanics gone mad when cunning warbands (destro) left RvR zone. Waited for aao on Order and then ambushed from pve with a wound debuff on Order side. When running in rvr at that moment you had to check all the time if you are squishy or with normal wounds.

Acidic wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:36 am The idea that aoe target cap being affected by aao sounds reasonable but honestly the bomb WB are a disease in themselves .

This ^^

and the problem is then the players log to winning side, with the xrealmers, there is no solution at the moment, most of the players going the easiest way, that is sad,we must be patient that the devs have the tool, for prevent this xrealming

.....bomb wb are a desease but then when you have 72 ppl on both sides to kill and ress are just happenimg so fast that st is not even relevant.....

Try pass a tank wall on keep door....yes aoe is a desease is not counterimg stuff in game right?

And you are then offer no solution.......nice.......

The major problem is that AoE bombing got shafted so hard due to target caps and dmg output that it required you to get more people to deal with more numbers. (Just as target cap soakers tbh) What the WAR team did to AoE to prevented bombing from being viable in small scale ended up forcing zergs. Id say it didn't make the game any better, but rather worse . Id rather have AoE viability in small scale then zergs.

With no target caps and higher dmg scaling you can as the underdog realm use manouvers and terrain to get the jump on the enemies to try and equalize numbers aslong as you kill enough others. If you manage to take out the majorty of dps with such a move you also get dps advantage and can actually win the fight. But the low dps and target caps prevents this from happening.

mogt wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:38 am and the problem is then the players log to winning side, with the xrealmers, there is no solution at the moment, most of the players going the easiest way, that is sad,we must be patient that the devs have the tool, for prevent this xrealming

Almost nobody fighting for a longer period of time logs to the winning side, when you lose all contribution. What you see is not xrealming but people who got tired of losing or no visible progress with rvr campaign and log out for the night.

roadkillrobin wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:08 am With no target caps and higher dmg scaling you can as the underdog realm use manouvers and terrain to get the jump on the enemies to try and equalize numbers aslong as you kill enough others. If you manage to take out the majorty of dps with such a move you also get dps advantage and can actually win the fight. But the low dps and target caps prevents this from happening.

The times, when certain melee dd were using aoe skills and damage got raised to insanely high levels because of the number of targets hit, were fun for those 6mans but horrible from a gameplay perspective.