Return of Reckoning

Hello everyone,

at the beginning I would like to state that:
a) I am not experience WAR / RvR player
b) I have deep respect for those who decide to lead PUGs because of the patience and hard work it requires

Now I'd like to start a discussion, or make my suggestion.

Would you please take into consideration a different strategy while creating a warband?

I just crashed from order attack at Praag keep, thanks RNJ for taking me from this hell. There were 2 public warbands, random people with zero to little communication between them (not leaders, players, parties). We managed to attack lord, one WB was supposed to defend ground floor entrance, the second to slay the lord. It reset 5 times, half of the warband was somewhere else (fighting outside the keep for example). So we switched tasks, the other WB attacked lord. It reset at about 10%. Still, some of our WB players were somewhere else, not listening to commands. In the middle of third try I crashed, and I'm not coming back, so I don't know how it ended.

It's just a salty story, but wanted to show the reality of PUGs. It's not the first time it happened and I'm sure everybody have similar experience.

My suggestion isn't new, isn't original. I would propose for those who have mental toughness to lead PUG, to instead making an open warband, just shout at LFG what you need, and create proper parties where are healers, tanks, etc. After creating make sure everybody know they have to follow the leader and listen to commands. Make sure they know where to stand during a fight, and during keep lord assault.

That will make people think and consider themselves in a bigger reality, where they have to cooperate in group. First of all it will erase all complete randoms at WB who don't even know how to communicate - they will have to write a message to get invited. Secondly, it will function better, with proper amount of classes who support each other. There still will be overflow WBs, there still will be lord resets, but with this mentality, people will maybe finally start to improve at what they're doing, if we start to improve the standard of RvR. I would recommend to not be afraid of making people think, to have requirements.

That will also, I hope, end this frustration which causes other people to leave and never come back to RvR. We have to stop with this poor quality and demand thinking from players.

It's not equal to creating guilds, because they run with people who know each other and are more constant. I'm saying of creating warbands that consists of randoms, just in proper parties and with their conscious agreement to listen to a leader.

Probably didn't use all the arguments and forgot about something, feel free to point it.


Have faith in those dark days, may the Sigmar bless PUGs!


BTW image isn't mine, I just feel that this is how PUGs look like

Closed WB's will not work, you'll end up with someone else opening up a pug wb.

Hell I'll do it myself if I thought random puggers where being left out because they where not following someone's orders.

You want an organised wb, make one, dont try to force out puggers.

Haldret wrote:Hello everyone,

at the beginning I would like to state that:
a) I am not experience WAR / RvR player
b) I have deep respect for those who decide to lead PUGs because of the patience and hard work it requires

Now I'd like to start a discussion, or make my suggestion.

Would you please take into consideration a different strategy while creating a warband?

I just crashed from order attack at Praag keep, thanks RNJ for taking me from this hell. There were 2 public warbands, random people with zero to little communication between them (not leaders, players, parties). We managed to attack lord, one WB was supposed to defend ground floor entrance, the second to slay the lord. It reset 5 times, half of the warband was somewhere else (fighting outside the keep for example). So we switched tasks, the other WB attacked lord. It reset at about 10%. Still, some of our WB players were somewhere else, not listening to commands. In the middle of third try I crashed, and I'm not coming back, so I don't know how it ended.

It's just a salty story, but wanted to show the reality of PUGs. It's not the first time it happened and I'm sure everybody have similar experience.

My suggestion isn't new, isn't original. I would propose for those who have mental toughness to lead PUG, to instead making an open warband, just shout at LFG what you need, and create proper parties where are healers, tanks, etc. After creating make sure everybody know they have to follow the leader and listen to commands. Make sure they know where to stand during a fight, and during keep lord assault.

That will make people think and consider themselves in a bigger reality, where they have to cooperate in group. First of all it will erase all complete randoms at WB who don't even know how to communicate - they will have to write a message to get invited. Secondly, it will function better, with proper amount of classes who support each other. There still will be overflow WBs, there still will be lord resets, but with this mentality, people will maybe finally start to improve at what they're doing, if we start to improve the standard of RvR. I would recommend to not be afraid of making people think, to have requirements.

That will also, I hope, end this frustration which causes other people to leave and never come back to RvR. We have to stop with this poor quality and demand thinking from players.

It's not equal to creating guilds, because they run with people who know each other and are more constant. I'm saying of creating warbands that consists of randoms, just in proper parties and with their conscious agreement to listen to a leader.

Probably didn't use all the arguments and forgot about something, feel free to point it.


Have faith in those dark days, may the Sigmar bless PUGs!


BTW image isn't mine, I just feel that this is how PUGs look like

So...essentially you are asking PUG leaders to be organized...sounds like you should just join an established guild that runs premade warbands. You are asking for organization in a historically disorganized environment (applies to every game out there).

I mean, if you're going to run an open warband, you should assume responsibility of formatting groups with healers and tanks, and kick the warcamp leechers and members across the map that don't follow directions. I suspect that's a lot easier to pull off during EU prime when there's 6 warbands per side.

Kick anyone who doesnt follow orders. Rest of the herd will understand. If they go emo in wb chat..kick them aswell. Soon you have a pug who listends. Maybe a small wb but still semi organised. I did it myself today. Kicked 15 ppl from the wb. And eachtime more ppl joined some of the old wb members told them the rules. After 30 minutes i had a pretty strong wb.
I do understand your frustration. Pugs are almost abit..."retarded"..sometimes.

I do lead pug(mostly on saturday because days off!!!) but yes its a pain to get everyone together. I personally got my experience from live and its not my cup of tea but im doing it from time to time. I dont lead the whole RvR because once again leading 24man is kinda a full time job! I have my own recipe to make it succesfully(Kick afk'ers and those who cant folo) and other "secrets" and most of time im having fairly good succes. U gotta make your orders clear(theres a new addon for the pug WB that i cant remember the name but it seems to be very useful!!!!) I dont use it anyway... I lead on either my DOK or my Black Orc and yes u can lead as a healer u just have to make sure u have a good DPS or tank to pick good target first and the wb will folo and profit!!

As others have said, just threaten and kick players who refuse to follow simple orders and go off their own way. You end up with a strong core of players overtime who end up being pretty strong (for a pug). People only start giving a **** when their free ride is threatened and they have to put in a modicum of effort.

Also lots of capslock. I found just yelling CHARGE in /s helps as the chatbox above the head is more visible to players who have tunnel vision, just to get them to charge with you.

Keep orders simple, thats always an inportant thing and make sure you rally them together often.

Most people in a wb are there because they want a bag and they put in allot of effort for the first 10mins and then go afk for the cap. Kick them by all means.

Other times take into account what people are doing. I was in an rvr in high pass yesterday and this guy was at the wc near the keep, spotting and relaying on main channel the dessie positions and movements around keep.
The wb leader kicked him because he wasn't running to other keep even though he was being useful and made it clear he'd join the main group when they reached him for the siege (which he did).

If pugs dont follow WB leader commands, kick them. Maybe someone who follows commands joins instead. Or as said, keep the WB closed after it reaches 12-18 people and fill the rest according to demand, not just a full open doors policy.
Obviously pug leaders vary in their quality, some already do this, others care less. This in turn already affects their combat performance, with a lolpug WB wiping in 10 seconds after it meets organized enemy WB, but a somewhat organized pug WB might hold 20-30 sec, which might just be enough to get reinforcements in or stall enough.

You'll never stop casual players being casual. The drop in/drop out element of pugs is one of the main attractions for me, was in live.

Thing is a great many feel that way so you'll always get the lolpugs. Thing is many start there and learn, often the hard way, through it.

Hell if I find people kicking from open pugs like the op suggests I'd start a lolpug just to give those players a chance to get together. Only people I'd kick would be the afks