I always hesitate posting stuff like this, because it technically doesnt involve the few areas we have talked about and Torq mentioned that any FURTHER changes will come from client control... but I did feel like pointing this out.
There was a thread (
)
That talked a bit about this, and It never really hit me until I read that. Many of the BGs buffs and debuffs are all on separate abilities, which also means more GCD usage NOT spent doing all the other things all tanks must do:
(List):
And then you get into the class specifics. Mainly. Group buffing and enemy debuffing. Admittedly, I have not played BO to stay "destru focused" but I played a Knight/Chosen/SM/BG extensively so I will use my knowledge from just those tanks.
- Knight/Chosen: Obviously this is EZ mode and is not the standard... and should be nerfed.. But the reason I bring this up, is because the BUFF and DEBUFF are on the same thing - the auras. Even their abilities that debuff (Blast Wave) are AoE debuffs.
- SM (again havnt played BO): Not only are the enchants "procs" (not requiring GCDs) but a key debuff (Wrath of Hoeth) is AoE. Allowing most of the TIME spent using GCDs for SM, focused on a target with rather low "build up" time (Example: E.B. -> Q.I. -> Wrath -> Protection of H. -> Eagles Flight -> WW/ED). There are many "options" in there, just using this as 1 example in which a SM gets to "auto-budd/debuff" via enchants + AoE debuff. Max rotation isnt very long... and already includes things like: - stat buff/debuffs (built in), snare, self parry buff, aoe debuff, self bubble, etc.
- BG... This is where you have a clunkiness issue where each thing only does ONE piece. So a "hypothetical" rotation (not theory crafting but sake of illustration):
- Crippling Anger -> Feeding on Weakness, Brutal Smash -> Shield of Rage -> Enraged Beating (3 secs) -> Horrific Wound -> Pitless Strike -> Furious Howl-> Crimson Death (2h).... This rotation doesnt even include things like Crush the Weak or Crushing Anger, etc. But is ~11 seconds long versus ~ 6 seconds for an SM and maybe less for Chosen/Knight (or atleast the same).
The ISSUES I SEE:
- BGs buffs are on different abilities than debuffs (requires 2x the GCDs)
- BGs BEST debuffs require either HIGH hate cost or require hate to use....
Which in the end, while I like all the TOOLS BG has... it takes 2x the "setup" to use them all. Which is why, in the end, the design of the core of the BG fails (imo) compared to other tanks who can bring more to the party (group buffs).
I dont have a solution and I dont want to start proposing solutions. But it seems to me that this is an issue. While the BG is fun to play... this is why it will always be seen as a lower tier tank. Even if Chosen/Knights auras are nerfed and more focused... The fact remains, Chosen/Knight/SM/BO have "auto" debuff/buffs that are AOE/GROUP WIDE where as all the BGs stuff its on its own GCDS and is mostly single target.
Sorry for Wall-o-texting here.. I just was not sure where else to write this all... I hope you guys dont see this as complaining as its not. I enjoy my BG very much (especially after changes) but this seems to be an underlying issue and I wonder if its possible to merely swap around a few things to alleviate this....
Something should be looked at with regards to hate scaling and hate spending. Too many abilities require hate scaling as well as hate spending. Without things like Enraged beating (consumes 3 sec) its difficult to keep hate up (especially with CD having such a high cost). If you WERE to use:
- Pitless Strike
- Furious Howl
- Crimson Death
You would go from 100 hate -> 20 hate... Which means none of the other rotation is usable due to it all scaling off hate... (Punt/Crush the Weak/Horrific Wound/Crushing Anger).
So you have very few options to use with low hate and almost too many options to use at maximum hate.. Youll spend a few GCDs just using the non hate spending abilities, and then a few GCDs spending your hate, all of which took tremendous build up/time and then leaves you back to very few options....
So to list these out BG (non Mastery):
So it seems to me... That a few hate scaler should be made to NOT scale with hate... Since you have 11 non Mastery abilities that all compete with eachother at any given time... Which is NOT the case on any of the other tanks... Even SM, you have a small handful of Normal Balance abilities that compete
SM NON MASTERY:
However on BG... Say you just used Furious Howl (30 Hate). Well you COULD use a lack luster Hate Scaler but likely not.. since its just not as good at all..... Everything is just "competing" with each other... meanwhile the SM has less "competition" while also auto-buff/debuff as part of the rotation. I know Enraged Beating helps generate it. But it almost seems like some of the hate spenders could be reduced a bit and so could hate generators, which leads to overall similar "balance" but less of the feeling that in 2 hate spenders (CD+FH) you just wiped out all your hate and now cant really use any hate scalers or spenders...
Ill stop now.. I could easily write more... Again, sorry for the wall of text but this is a point that I think needed to be really fleshed out in order to SEE it.