Return of Reckoning

The Issue
Stat/armor potions are too effective in this game. They influence how a specific spec is determined and if a ability should be spec'd into or not. There are good concept abilities in this game that get discarded due to stat/armor potions. Tradeskill's should not influence how players spec.

These stat/armor potions are must have's and have a affect on the overall balance of the game. The use of stat/armor potions are in direct competitiion with abilities that classes provide. The spec lines and abilities should always outweigh what tradeskills can provide which in a lot of cases they do if a 15 point spec is taken. The community doesn't favor 15 point spec's and favors usually hybrid spec's and augments the deficiency of their chosen spec with a stat/armor potion.

Solution 1
Remove stat/armor potions from the game.

Solution 2
Drastically smash down the effectiveness of these potions. Have green stat potions only contribute 40 or 20 points to stats. Have green armor potions only contribute 330 or 165 armor.

Solution 3
Decrease the duration of these potions to be of a very short duration. In example: a armor potion only gives a boost to armor for 30 sec's with a 5 minute cooldown. Have the armor potion stack on top of ability stat increases. A stat potion only gives a boost to a stat for 30 sec's with a 5 minute cooldown. Have the stat potion stack on top of ability stat increases.

I favor a combination of solution 2 and 3. This topic is a game changer topic and affects the overall balance. I've already seen players make justifications on changing ablities due to stat/armor potions to be more effective. When maybe the ability shouldn't be changed and the effectiveness of the stat/armor potion should be reduced or removed.

Agreed.

I feel Solution 3 would be a bit messy in a PvP environment (though Aza's points below could counter that thought, in regards to how AP/health pots work). I feel a compromised Solution 1, i.e. flat-out removal of armor pots, while keeping stat pots, would be the best direction to go in: it would justify using abilities such as Aethyric Armor and Force of Fury, giving them a use whereas now they're only used if you happen to lack an armor pot (for whatever reason).

I favour 3 without stacking. Potions should be valuable for covering short time gaps in which you don't have access to a particular effect, and nothing more. This is how both healing and AP potions work, but for some reason, armor and stat potions get to be passive, unshatterable AND powerful, neutralizing a number of single target buffer abilities and reducing the viability of the classes that have them.

Any modification to potion mechanics (specifically armor) will have short term effects and this is acknowledged. We should balance around the result. I especially acknowledge Prayer of Absolution and Covenant of Tenacity, and I already have a direction for dealing with that issue.

Potions used to work like similar to this on live.


Although I feel a 5 min c/d reuse timer is a bit overboard, that is on par with renown abilities. make the potions cooldown x 2 the length of the potion. 30 sec = 1 min cooldown. I would stay away from shared timers if possible. Stat poitons timer / Reisit Potion timer / Armor Potion timer. not one timer to rule them all

Proposition number 3 is awful. If that would be alternative to current then remove pots from game completly instead.

Why nr. 3 is awful? Because it increases grind (numbers of potions used it they have short duration & cooldown) and mess in pvp as it would be another heal-like pot on short cooldown.

Additionally you as players have to remmeber that removing or reducing effectiveness (including nr3 proposal) will incraase improtance of dps, both burst and dot-pressure like dps. + importance of aura buffs.

I think it will be nerf to all magic caster characters. Now good WL or WH kill my shamy in 3-5 sec? Without armor potions I die in 1-2 sec? If u remove stat potions - give alternative or nerf armor penetration\armor debuff.

P.S. 30 sec with 600 armor? Just lol

I feel that pots work in synergy with most buffs and generally provide a good alternative. By removing them i think you will only push people into a different meta spec. Groups will seek out the armour and stat buffs and those classes which cannot provide them will be a bit left out to say the least. Generally the buffers for stats and armour are tanks so it stands to reason that any tank that cannot provide either and armour buff to the group or an offensive stat buff will be passed up for one that can.

I think that people are over stating the importance of these potions currently the armour pot isn't pushing mitigation into stupid levels and the stat pots arn't the thing excluding any single class from the game. Take an 80 strength pot for instance it makes a good reserve buff but any tank speced in the relevant tree from buffing can provide way more.

The problem is not the effect of these potions in and of themselves, it's how they interfere with and mask class abilities. If armor pots are mandatory to keep the meta going, then look at the Light armor class and whether it's performing appropriately, and tweak AoE effects (auras / covenants / prayers) approriately. Don't use the threat of short-term issues (which is very real, but will be dealt with) to justify doing nothing.

Sometimes you need a 2 or 3 stage balance pass. This is such an example.

I agree that the system has its flaws, and a lot of potions mask a lot of abilities in a way that they become obsolete.
And i have an additional suggestion: Make all stat/armor potions increase the characters attributes not by a fixed amount, but use a percental value for the calulation: this way, a SW cant get as much strength out of it as a choppa, or a DOK cant get as much armor as a tank.