[Implementation Feedback] White Lion - Pounce

[Gerv]

I think the idea of tying the ability to the pet is horrid. The pet is unreliable and on moments as while lion plays have stated, it disappears. I also commonly duo with a WL player in oceanic times so I am not just band-waggoning with WL players here. A reasonable cool-down and snare application upon landing seems more sensible.

In any organised play, pets are killed first, espically WL pets, in any large open skirmish fights pets are notorious for dying to fluff area of effect damage. This removes any reasonable gap closer that mele and tanks have (due to changes to m1 root and m3 root). I strongly believe that adding it to the pet for these reasons above is too much of a nerf to the ability.

[satanicomoderno]

Spoiler:

Put cooldown on goblin speed run tactic and we start to talk. Also, remove snare aura of Doks and automatically detaunt tactic of gobbos.

Read the rules before posting in this forum. - wargrimnir

[Diodos]

Prop 1 (or some variation of it)
+ 15s Cooldown
+ 20-30% 5s snare on-cast
--> 15s Cooldown seems ok, don't see a problem with this. We still would have Feline Grace and Charge to follow up if I mess up a pounce .
--> I wouldn't like to see an additional snare in the game, mainly based on the fact, that I would be in that case just the assist lead for my group - pounce --> snare target by myself --> wait for tank --> tank CC as required and 2nd DD is also on the target. Seems just a little bit too strong for me.
--> Instead of the snare the speed proc sounds reasonable, in that case the actual issue with pounce would still be covered but you would cover this on the WL itself on don't punish his target (with a snare)

Prop 2
+ 15s Cooldown
Pounce becomes a Pet activated ability
WL and Pet both need to be within 65' of target

--> sending my lion via pounce somewhere just to fetch someone seems to me as a major debuff for this class, the player itself is using pounce either to reach his enemies (which are out of guard range) or just because he is a lazy assist-bot and hit's pounce all the time .
--> The change istelf would improve fetch, but how often do we really use this ability..., to avoid instant guard (when I pull sorc's or healers into the front line), I would have to move away from my group, set up the fetch. Best case I get the target 70-80 ft away from this tank (and may be able to burst it away) with exposing myself at the same time, sorry but I don't see this a realistic and effective game play at all.

[Esperflame]

I love the first idea. I know I'm a destro player, but even in our guild teamspeak we talk about Pounce and the problems it has the problems it causes and way to balance it out so it's still useful for WL's without being seen as a cheesy spamable move. Giving pounce a cooldown and adding a Snare is something I suggested in TS and most of the guys seemed to think that was a good compromise. The snare ensures that the white lion has a little time to catch up to his pounce target and try to all in it while the cooldown allows say a tank to respond with a snare and punt to try and save the squishy. I'm all for option 1 War

[Korhill]

Good Morning everyone!

@Wargrimnir Pets are not more than serviceable. The Pet problems are real and that is a big issue for everyone who is playing a WL. It is not a visual bug either, the pet is just gone for 10 to 15 seconds and you cant use any pet skills and this happens very often in ORVR.
I hope that you take the problem finally seriously. Because its kinda unrespectful to all WL players to keep telling them, that pet is more or less fine, when it is definitly not.

So point 2 is not an option. To Prob 1 i can just say that 15 sec CD is way to much and would be a Nerf to the WL class. When it gets changed it should have max a 5 seconds CD and a 2 second stun.

Problems with with 20% Snare. Please correct me if i am wrong. When the SH or SHM has the speed tactic +30% on him. The WL pounce and snares him with 20%. When i understand it correct the SHM has after snare still 10% more speed and that means he would be again out of range . If there is a change in Pounce than it should be a 2 second Stun.

But in first place the pet needs to get fixed first before any changes are happening.

Greetings Khorhall

[NoRKaLKiLLa]

What if pounce had an undetermined cooldown, when you land it knocks down your target- unless that target hit's you, or some other condition (detaunt/interrupt) before you hit the ground, then you get knocked down. Don't know if that would be possible, but would make for some dynamic fighting.

You'd be taking the chance to instant gap close and knockdown, followed by burtblasting your target, but it could be countered by very quick reflexes, so as not to be an "I win!" button.

[Stortz]

Pounce should be jump into your pet ability

that way, if you have a lion on you, there's the chance the master will pop on your tail.

First you make your pet tag your opponent, then your pounce makes you jump into your pet's position.
This way, you could make it as a defensive ability as well.
If you use your pet as an anchor, tell him to sit in place, close in n the enemy and then pounce back to safety, jumping to the place you left the lion, preferably close to your allies.

I like using your pet as a defensive target, and it might make more sense as far as what they're able to accomplish with the abilities. However the second part I don't expect to happen very often as engaging without your pet would badly gimp your DPS output. I'll add this as an option to the second proposal.

What's the reasoning behind 15 second cooldown? Virtually all of the WL abilities that aren't spammable use a 10 second cooldown. Would rather see it revolve around that fact.

I believe any cool downs that are added should start at 5 and then be adjusted accordingly in increments of 5 the testing process should be gradual.

I ended up at 15s through testing the ability in-game using an addon at various CD levels. 15s was a comfortable spot, 10s seemed like it was up a little too often for the enemy to have a significant reaction time to my sudden change in position. 5s made no noticeable difference. The proposal for the cooldown can be adjusted, I'm not hard set on any of the values really.

the idea of the anchor would be to sacrifice dps for survivability, meaning you deal less damage but you have a failsafe in case cornered. It gives a different dimension to the whole ability.
It would make the character very mobile however. You would see WLs jumping in and out of action with ease, maybe not with the most damage output but certainly more agile.

[Kali14]

Male WL have many graphical issues. His right leg, this how he hold axe which enter in to his body, same like hairs and like pet stand in to him this and also his shoulders. After some time playing, this everything start to be very annoying. Pounce is somerhing what can let him forget about this problems, that's why CD on pounce is bad idea. Other classes haven't so many graphical bugs.

[kryss]

Good Morning everyone!

@Wargrimnir Pets are not more than serviceable. The Pet problems are real and that is a big issue for everyone who is playing a WL. It is not a visual bug either, the pet is just gone for 10 to 15 seconds and you cant use any pet skills and this happens very often in ORVR.
I hope that you take the problem finally seriously. Because its kinda unrespectful to all WL players to keep telling them, that pet is more or less fine, when it is definitly not.

I wonder if Wargrimnir really played the class because his cure to the pet's problems is "Use the Pet UI attack button to switch it's targets". That's hilarious and disheartening at the same time.

[Panzerkasper]

Male WL have many graphical issues. His right leg, this how he hold axe which enter in to his body, same like hairs and like pet stand in to him this and also his shoulders. After some time playing, this everything start to be very annoying. Pounce is somerhing what can let him forget about this problems, that's why CD on pounce is bad idea. Other classes haven't so many graphical bugs.

I find this completly irrelevant. Some minor animation bugs cant be an argument for changing/not changing a gameplay wise broken ability.