DE Racial Groups

[saupreusse]

What I see is that its always the same people making other ppls ideas look bad and put whole threads into ridiculous keyboard warrior battles.
I really like your idea of the racial parties, you should try out a lot of things.
They will always **** on new ideas. they ruin your posts just because they think they know more than you do and that your ideas wont work and you do have no prove that it will work - but do they have proof that it will not work?-nope. And even if they are right and it does not work out quite as well as you thought, why would they offend you? if everything would be accessible without failure, in what a world would we live now? Keep doing this kind of stuff, I will always read your posts

Best Regards,
Shirayha

[Happenstance]

@footpatrol - Sent a message to your Shaman.

[footpatrol2]

@happenstance
kk checkin

@saupreusse

Thanks man I super appreciate the positively. I feel the same way.

Quick note on morale 4's being viable in competitive play or specifically thousand eye's. If morale 4's are not viable in competitive play then why was their a change too thousand eye's?

So back on topic of DE racial's groups. This is a 12 man.
This is kind of a herding group. Its a wild idea. Not sure it could work.

Something I am noticing is DE has a serious AP advantage and can feed their groups pretty easily with AP with elite training from BG. In the links that is provided I'll be picking up tactics. It doesn't mean you actually HAVE to use them in every situation. It just means you have access to them. They are also not complete builds either to allow for flexability.

To get full use out of HTL technique's everyone in the group takes the renown bought stuff of disrupt and dodge to help mitigate magic.

This group works better with thousand eye's being 30 sec's but you can get away with it not being there.

1st grp. 3 Anguish BG's/2 Dark rites dok's/1 AE Sorc
2nd grp 2 malice BG's/2 Loathing BG's/2 Dark rites Dok's.
You can play around with group composition.

3 Anguish BG built for disrupt for HTL if needed.
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=bg; ... :;;0:0:0:0:
4 dark rites Dok's with thousand eye's.
2 Loathing BG with Wave of scorn
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=bg; ... :;;0:0:0:0:
2 Malice BG's with anti detaunt tactic (meh dpsers)
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=bg; ... :;;0:0:0:0:
1 AE sorc
I dunno thier best set up for this. Please educate me. Assume you don't need to do anything for AP advantage due to elite training coming from BG's

What this group can do.
Cycle Wave of Scorn Constant AE 10% crit
Cycle Crimson Death Constant AE snare in front 40ft
Feed sorc group AP with anguish BG elite training.

How the group works.
You create a circle with Hold the line tanks or moving front. Everyone has to be within 50 of them with the Scorn BG's dancing in and out of the circle to AE snare and catch the flies.

Push the HTL tanks past people you want to kill. AE snare/Crimson Death anything that gets in the circle. Cycle as needed elite training to keep Sorc AP up. This HTL group is very mobile and not stagnant. As I understand it thou Dok's like to sit in one spot to heal best thou so movement might be slightly wonky. Practice would have to be needed.

This group should be Super tough due to the amount of BG's. So your sacrificing Rawr damage for more durability. Once 30'sec thousand eye's could be used you can free up a little on HTL stuff.

This is obviously not a complete list of everything this 12 man could do just the jist of it. DE get a lot of benefits from criting so have crimson death constantly up is nice.

[footpatrol2]

Intro
Ok this 6 man build is focusing out passive damage based on hit, which it looks like DE can do very well maybe the best for destruction at least. This build can be stand alone but works better in a 12 man where you can make use of HTL technique’s to mitigate the lack of resistances. These builds are also skew builds, meaning extremely strong in one aspect and very weak in others aspects. The group should CRUSH specific premades while be Crushed by other premades. Its not a batman utility belt premade like how the current meta is which doesn’t make it a unviable build. Its just different. In addition traditional gear value’s may have to be played around with because your playing as a team and not using your pug solo que gear.

Classes used
1 dark rites dok covenant of tenacity (armor)
1 Torture DoK covenant of celerity (damage/snare) with bloodthurst tactic slotted
1 Sac Dok covenant of tenacity (damage/heal)
1 heavy loathing BG wave of scorn
1 heavy malice BG crimson death
1 Carnage WE

Builds (built on tactical flexability with tactics) These builds are far from set in stone
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=dok ... ;;;0:0:0:0:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=dok ... ;;;0:0:0:0:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=dok ... :;;0:0:0:0:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=we; ... :;;0:0:0:0:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=bg; ... ;;;0:0:0:0:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=bg; ... :;;0:0:0:0:
Alternative builds
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=dok ... :;;0:0:0:0:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=bg; ... :;;0:0:0:0:

For mixed
If you want to run this mixed drop a BG and pick up a dread chosen to roughly get the same effect. This will get a weak resist buff for a more rounded build. Pick up Dread ability relentless as it has good synergy with the passive damage buffs. But my focus is on pure DE builds.

Note: you could drop the loathing bg infavor for a 2nd malice BG for 100% crimson death upkeep. Your banking on the Covenant of celerity snaring to replace wave of scorn. Also you don't HAVE to go 2hnder with the Malice spec. Its ideal that you do but if the situation calls for it, you don't have too. After the malice BG is taken the 2nd tank could be heavy anguish for better magic protection/screw with healers build. In my opinion that anguish BG will still want Enraged beating ability from malice tree as it synergizes with groups composition very well. Both BG's having elite training in my opinion is a must have for the AP feeds. You also don't need 100% upkeep on crimson death. Crimson death is taken to help provide the passive criting buff's needed for the DE group. There are a lot of benefits that have decent durations based on criting for all the DE classes.

Passive Damage
The entire group has Covenant of vitality, covenant of celerity boosted by tactic. Tooltip damage value's from this website I'm using are not accurate if fully spec'd into. If you guys could provide accurate tooltip values that would be nice. So I'm guessing here. The WE has 3 damage passives, Vitality, celerity, kiss of agony.

vitality (200 spirit damage?) + Celerity (225 spirit damage) = 425 spirit damage per person passive.
WE has 425 + 200 corp? I dunno max passive on thier kiss. So 525 or 625 potential per hit passive.

You have 5 characters attacking in this group which is making use of the passive damage.
This is potentially 425x5 = 2125 spirit damage + (100 or 200 corp from WE kiss) = 2225 or 2325 passive outgoing damage. Not ability damage. Since this group doesn’t have a resist debuff you’ll likely have 40% mitigation. Even if you ran a Dread chosen with resist aura you have to assume a Kotbs is being ran against it so your getting roughly (guess 30% mitigation as opposed to 40% mitigation). So passive damage turns into 2225 x 0.6 = 1335 passive damage roughly or 2225 x 0.7 = 1557.5 passive damage. Granted this is best case scenario which won't happen.

Appliers
We want appliers or focusing on hitting very fast so we can trigger the passive damage.
Hastened doom tactic on the BG auto attack increase.
Enraged beating ability on BG 6 attacks in 3 sec's 8 sec cooldown. Malice BG is a blender in fast attacks.
Khaine's blessing tactic on DoK (Sac/Torture) auto attack increase based on crit. Crimson death helps with criting.
Ruthless assault ability carnage WE. 6 attacks in 3 sec's 8 sec cooldown.
Relentless ability dread chosen. 6 attacks in 3 sec's 8 sec cooldown.

How this group works.
Starts off with WE stealthed
Guards go on Torture Dok and Sac Dok. Sac Has dedicated guard. Sac Dok keeps defensive target on the torture Dok.

WE pops out of stealth.
A guard switch comes off Sac/torture Dok likely torture to the WE. Sac Dok switches defensive target to WE for AP feed/healing. Note: WE are AP hungry classes. The more AP you can feed them the more damage they do. A few sec’s after WE pops out of stealth have BG’s start to pop Elite training for group AP feeds of a total 120 ap which is also feeding your WE.

Problems with sac's dok's
You have to be striping the absorbs to make sac work the group can strip enchantments but can't strip blessings. So AM bubbles won't help them but blessing absorbs/morale absorbs do. You can help mitigate this by having a mean single target assist group which this group is. If your killing single targets too fast you can slot bathing in blood/dark blessings tactic to help with the healing as a group. Sac dok's have problems with parry/block. BG's have default access to furious howl 10% avoidence decreaser AE. BG's also have a decent armor debuff to help the Dok's/WE do more damage. The armor debuff helps the Sac dok heal more blah blah.

Just in general, if you’re a die hard sac/torture dok make a malice BG friend to help make your class/spec work better.

What this group is doing and can do based on tactic slot switching
5 out of the 6 group members are healing themselves through covenant of vitality.
5 out of the 6 group members are attacking WAY faster then normal to apply passive damge.
5 out of the 6 group members can passively snare targets on hit through covenant of celerity.
Curse of Khaine tactic can be slotted for Passive AE heal debuff on torture Dok.
Transfer focus tactic can be slotted by either the torture dok or sac dok to help with healing (just a option)
Access to on demand AP feeds with elite training
Sacrifice rewarded tactic on WE for more absorbs.
Gift of Khaine tactic for Sac dok/Alternate torture Dok for single target AP feeds (ideally to WE)

What this group has access too.
This is just the list of what you have access too you don't have to use all of it.
3 Soul Shieldings which can be staggered for roughly 3000 damage absorbs on demand per minute.
2 m1 Dok life's end which can be useful
3 m2 Dok group cleansings
Potentially 3 DI's which can be staggered
Potentially a morale bomb component (i'll discuss this later.)
2 m2 AE knockbacks from BG's
BG's can self cleanse with m1
AP feeds
2 elite trainings
Gift of Khaine tactic Dok

Tactic slot switches
(i'll edit this section and list a bunch of tactic slot switches for different oppositions you'll face. You switch tactics and potentially gear depending on what your facing.)

[Shadowgurke]

Fully specced Torture: 187 Spirit damage Celerity
Fully specced Sac: 187 Spirit damage Vitality

WE full carnage: 228 Corporal damage with Kiss of Agony

[footpatrol2]

Are those at lvl 35? I assume 35.

So you can actually squeeze in another passive damage on hit from Sorc with frozen touch. But then you got 1 torture/ 1 sac/ 1 sorc / 1 WE all in one group. The WE potential on hit damage would be intense.

It can work BUT it would have to be in a very large setting, like group 3 or 4 out of a premade warband. Even then its pretty unwieldy.

[Shadowgurke]

level 40, spec points allocated like you suggested in your specs. Numbers are taken from the warbuilder addon

[footpatrol2]

How dark elves got their resistance/armor buff as a race.

http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... 73&t=13274
It got taken away.

[footpatrol2]

The reason why I am writing this is to try and show why mythic put abilities where they did and how they actually tried to balance the game. Mythic had a intention of how the game would have been played. The players chose to not see value in same race builds.

This is a 12 man supa quick build. Sorry for not going heavy into detail. I wrote this in under a hour. This build is not viable anymore due to the loss of the morale booster the DoK had to get 1001 eye's resist buff/armor/avoidence buff which used to be 30 sec's. Which if two dok's were in a group could be cycled for 100% upkeep. This in my opinion wasn't an exploit but was 100% intentional by design. Mythic expected players to run 2 dok's in a group for 100% upkeep. The weakness of the 2 dok 1001 blessing group was it needed to stay in combat to keep the cycle up and it took time to reach your m4. It probably took like 15 to 20 sec's to get your dok's to thier m4. Meaning the opposition had 20 sec's to start a rez cycle otherwise they'd have to disengage to break the defensive morale cycle and re-engage when the DE groups lost their morale. Or use a spec specific morale bomb which doesn't care about armor/resistance/avoidence...

Herding group
2 loathing BG for with Wave of scorn for 100% upkeep pbaoe snare (acting as normal tanks)
2 malice BG's For 100% upkeep on Crimson death on targets caught in Wave of scorn
2 dark rites Dok's with 1001 m4 slotted with morale booster tactic slotted for 100% upkeep on resist buffs/armor buffs.

Dok's run Covenant of celerity and covenant of vitality to help boost malice BG's damage. Malice BG's have fast auto attack speeds which benefit more from those covenants.

Malice BG's could have a focus offense tactic slot switch when mainly facing heavy magic dps users.
When facing heavy physical damage users slot out of focus offense for increased armor. switch a convenant to tenacity. Flip in and out of convenants as needed. It costs no AP and is instant cast.

You could have fed morale to a loathing BG to quickly get him to his m4 kaines blessing. When 1 of the khaines blessing is poped Both loathing BG's could have poped none shall pass ability for a massive group heal coming from BG's. It would be likely that the BG's would have 1001 blessings on him and its likely the BG at max level will have close to a base 20% block so thats 50% none shall pass + 25% 1001 blessings + 20% block base for 95% base blocking. Each block gives 800 health so if both BG's are none shall pass thats 1600 health per block. So many tricks...

Granted this group isn't amazing by itself but its a support/utility group for a 2nd group thats more focused on damage. The group should shut down melee trains due to 100% wave of scorn upkeep. This allows the 2nd more dps focused group to skirt on the outside. Imagine this herding group combined with a 2nd 6 man bomb group either pure DE style or mixed.

In addition you have all the tricks that 4 BG's bring. Such as 4 guards for cross guarding. 4 Challenge shouts, All 4 racial morale abilites such as Self cleansing/4 undefendable AE knockbacks/4 large self armor buffs. All base morale abilities such as 4 m3 distracting bellows which could be staggered. This herding group has a very serious ability to reduce incoming damage while providing set-up/utility for a 2nd dps group. Granted its damage potential is less. The herding unit will likely also have 25% more overall avoidence due to 100% upkeep on 1001 blessings making this unit even more robust. This is a hard 6 man to shift has tricks for days but its damage output is less But... the real damage comes from the 2nd 6 man. This herder group is your front line your 2nd group trials behind dishing out pain. This herder group is a zerg line breaker but doesn't carry the dps that comes from a 2nd group.

Have a 2nd 6 man DE group be more sorc based and be the classic 2/2/2 (classic bomb group) OR 1/2/3 group and have 3 sorc's cycle m2 winds of woven shell for 100% upkeep. The Real pain comes from the 2nd group. Not the BG herder group.

Would it just be better to have 2 bomb groups or a herder group plus a bomb group? I dunno. It was cool that it was a option at one point sad it was taken away.

maybe i'll clean this up better tomarrow.