Return of Reckoning

Gachimuchi wrote:

Nishka wrote: The rest of kotbs kit is ok.

Are you serious?

Spoiler:

Dear gork you're serious aren't you

You didn't seem to take the hint so i'll lay it out for you nice and simple.

KoTBs
Ability - Shatter Confidence: Removes 1 enchantment and deals x damage. 5 second cooldown.
Tactic - Destroy Confidence: Shatter confidence now removes 3 enchantments from the victim, dealing damage for each removed.

Shaman
Ability - 'Ey, Quit Bleedin': Heals for over 15 seconds. ENCHANTMENT
Ability - Don' Feel Nuthin: Absorb bubble for x damage on target for 9 seconds. 20s cd. ENCHANTMENT
Ability - Do Sumfin Useful: Increases toughness by x and heals for x over 10 seconds. ENCHANTMENT

You know those 3 global cds and 105 action you just used? A KoTBs used 1 global cd and 25 action and nullified all 3 of them. He also did damage with them.

What's your point here? Most melee classes in the game can remove enchantments.
And Destroy confidence is - ta-daaam - a tactic, which almost no one uses because it would take place of more useful tactics.
Here is the little kotbs secret for you: most of his core abilities/tactics are utter crap and he gains most of his strength from tactics, which, obviously, have a limit of 4. 3 for now. If you wanna run destroy confidence you need to replace some other important tactic with it, maybe throw out +10% crit? Or runefang, if you're dps tank?
Seems like you have no idea about kotbses strength and weaknesses and all your "knowledge" comes from trying to take down a healed def kotbs on sc first and then crying: OMG ITS SO OP NERF NERF NERF.

Honestly I don't think that tactic is worth using.

but the tactic it's still op, the fact that kobs have other better op tools dosen't mean he suppose to remove 3x ench with 25 ap.
It should be at least 35 ap x ench. The 3x is fine as the trade off is slot the tactic.

Tesq wrote:but the tactic it's still op, the fact that kobs have other better op tools dosen't mean he suppose to remove 3x ench with 25 ap.
It should be at least 35 ap x ench. The 3x is fine as the trade off is slot the tactic.

Not more op than chosen's tools.

In order to a have a full and proper discussion of the Knight vs other Order Tanks (and eventually all tanks) we should first establish the typical Order group to which we can weigh up the benefits that each tank can bring. Propose typical Order group is WP-RP-SL-BW+coretank+KBS/SM/IB. coretank is just a non-descript tank that does basic things available to all tanks.

Anyone want to follow this approach? If so, we next need to establish typical setups (tactics/abilities) for each of the classes in our example party and then how each of our three tanks would typically setup too. There are obviously dozens of factors to consider and many assumptions to make and will not be as easy as a flame war but I believe it's only way to accurately compare the classes.

Nishka wrote:

Tesq wrote:but the tactic it's still op, the fact that kobs have other better op tools dosen't mean he suppose to remove 3x ench with 25 ap.
It should be at least 35 ap x ench. The 3x is fine as the trade off is slot the tactic.

Not more op than chosen's tools.

My fundamental issue with kotbs/chosen is if you are running a top end premade one tank is a chosen/kotbs. That isn't up for debate. While the other two classes for each realm can be swapped with SM/Blorc lagging behind the others do to lack of useful CC/group utility.

Shatter isn't OP because it is that strong its OP because it completely nulifies the Shaman class.

Could I propose instead of a nerf to this kotbs tatic a change of the toughness or regular hot to a blessing to remove the complete nullification the tatic presents?

Tklees wrote:if you are running a top end premade one tank is a bo/sm. That isn't up for debate.

fixed it for you.

Would easily trade x3 Shatter Enhancements for Crippling Strikes any day of the week, just my 3 cents

Bretin wrote:

Tklees wrote:if you are running a top end premade one tank is a bo/sm. That isn't up for debate.

fixed it for you.

You're the only person of any intelligence I have ever heard say this. I just don't see how an init debuff is better than CS, auras, aoe wounds debuff, and stagger

I have a dude. Kobts or ib for tank? i like these 2 classes