Return of Reckoning

Hi to everyone.

I just thought one thing for RvR.

I know that is boring to run all over the map for flag and keep, having all players concentrated in a small area with lags and crashes sometimes or having a red carpet of enemies that runs on everything that it encounters.

So What about improving a kind of roaming and balancing number in RvR Areas?

I mean, it always happens this:

"A flag is spamming" -> everyone to it and no1 stays at keep for door
" there is an enemy over there" -> 3/4 wb party run behind him\her
" A flammed keep" -> lots of ppl go there with the usual problems.

How to resolve those problems?

1) Tick Problem: I thought to make the flag\Keep tick on all map, so ppl are encouraged to make roaming and not a party at flags. So everyone can choose freely what to do: Defend flag? Roaming? Keep? WC camping?

To prevent leechers, the RR map tick will be a "lil" far from WC, so if you want to stay AFK for ticks, surely you'll die becouse guards or cannons (when implemented) will not defend you.

2) We are Zergs: I wonder, there are 3 maps for playing, why is always everyone in the same map at the same time? The answer is easy, for the tick and zerg. There is the AAO of 400%-500%, it is more xp and RR if you can kill someone but it also means that a red river is coming and in about 15 secs kills player and lord. Not funny for who is defending without a minimum of chance or time to enjoy a little a sure defeat. How to resolve it? I thought to introduce a debuff that works on the contrary of AAO, that gives less XP and RR after starting a certain % of AAO. Till AAO 200% no debuff, after the mass zerg starts to get it (its an example) that increase with the enemies'AAO from that point on. With this, ppl are encouraged to play in other areas when they are a lot.

It's just an idea and proposal, so don't make post like "You noob", "Idiot", etc ... but try to think about it, maybe it's not so stupid at what it can be, becouse both factions could be in this situation.

I can see how this can help but i also see new problems that comes to mind, need to think this over more befor i can say yay or nay.

Lindvior wrote: 1) Tick Problem: I thought to make the flag\Keep tick on all map, so ppl are encouraged to make roaming and not a party at flags. So everyone can choose freely what to do: Defend flag? Roaming? Keep? WC camping?

To prevent leechers, the RR map tick will be a "lil" far from WC, so if you want to stay AFK for ticks, surely you'll die becouse guards or cannons (when implemented) will not defend you.

People will still do this even if they are dead because you still get exp and renown while dead. I was thinking something like the moment you get flagged as afk you dont get renown or something like that. And the flagging for afk should be like 1 minute of standing still or something. But then people will just put something on the keyboard that keeps them from getting flagged.

Lindvior wrote: 2) We are Zergs: I wonder, there are 3 maps for playing, why is always everyone in the same map at the same time? The answer is easy, for the tick and zerg. There is the AAO of 400%-500%, it is more xp and RR if you can kill someone but it also means that a red river is coming and in about 15 secs kills player and lord. Not funny for who is defending without a minimum of chance or time to enjoy a little a sure defeat. How to resolve it? I thought to introduce a debuff that works on the contrary of AAO, that gives less XP and RR after starting a certain % of AAO. Till AAO 200% no debuff, after the mass zerg starts to get it (its an example) that increase with the enemies'AAO from that point on. With this, ppl are encouraged to play in other areas when they are a lot.

It's just an idea and proposal, so don't make post like "You noob", "Idiot", etc ... but try to think about it, maybe it's not so stupid at what it can be, becouse both factions could be in this situation.

The problem with this one is that theres no where to go when theres one zone open for example. Then it will be a race for who gets there first while people getting there last will be pissed off because of the debuff.

EDIT: This could be fixed if the zones opens more quickly or theres always two zones open at the same time so people have somewhere to go. But I'm sure that just brings up another problem that I cant think of now.

Zhentarim wrote: People will still do this even if they are dead because you still get exp and renown while dead. I was thinking something like the moment you get flagged as afk you dont get renown or something like that. And the flagging for afk should be like 1 minute of standing still or something. But then people will just put something on the keyboard that keeps them from getting flagged.

Death problem can be prevented, for example, introducing a no RR/XP gain after 20 secs (a healer can always ress you, and 20 secs are quite good), or lowering the respawn time from 5 mins to 1 so you can't leech. In my proposal you can make a macro for casting a buff every tot secs for not going afk, but when you are 500 feet away from camp, you are a easy kill for everyone, and ppl will always come to check for those leechers.

Zhentarim wrote: The problem with this one is that theres no where to go when theres one zone open for example. Then it will be a race for who gets there first while people getting there last will be pissed off because of the debuff.

EDIT: This could be fixed if the zones opens more quickly or theres always two zones open at the same time so people have somewhere to go. But I'm sure that just brings up another problem that I cant think of now.

This can happen if there are 2/3 locked zones, you're right, but it avoids to concentrate more ppl in a zone with a lots already. Fighting in that area still gives INF, XP and RR, even if locked, so ppl can continue to fight there.

Lindvior wrote: 1) Tick Problem: I thought to make the flag\Keep tick on all map, so ppl are encouraged to make roaming and not a party at flags. So everyone can choose freely what to do: Defend flag? Roaming? Keep? WC camping?

To prevent leechers, the RR map tick will be a "lil" far from WC, so if you want to stay AFK for ticks, surely you'll die becouse guards or cannons (when implemented) will not defend you.

Ticks are an issue, but I'm unsure what is so "lucrative" about them to pug wbs. The exp and renown from them already feels low, getting 1 kill with a full group gives the same.
I'd like to see a longer lock timer on BOs. And if order holds a flag and destro takes the flag, and then order takes it back within the 3mins or w/e it is, they should have to defend it for 3 mins.
During the downtime with longer BO locks, people would be forced to defend their keep if they loose BOs, or duke it out in some good ol' PvP.

Lindvior wrote: 2) We are Zergs: I wonder, there are 3 maps for playing, why is always everyone in the same map at the same time? The answer is easy, for the tick and zerg. There is the AAO of 400%-500%, it is more xp and RR if you can kill someone but it also means that a red river is coming and in about 15 secs kills player and lord. Not funny for who is defending without a minimum of chance or time to enjoy a little a sure defeat. How to resolve it? I thought to introduce a debuff that works on the contrary of AAO, that gives less XP and RR after starting a certain % of AAO. Till AAO 200% no debuff, after the mass zerg starts to get it (its an example) that increase with the enemies'AAO from that point on. With this, ppl are encouraged to play in other areas when they are a lot.

A negative AAO will just cause more cross-realming and I want to see more realm pride. It's fairly easy to hold a keep with 100% AAO with balanced groups, Kings Own proved that in dwarf a few nights ago with 150% AAO. Hell, even the destro pugs with 40-80% AAO in elf yesterday EU prime held off our WB at the keep for a few hours. If we see something similar to live at the end with that ridiculous keep defence buff, 100% AAO can be a non-factor in a defence

Also, Why is everyone in a zone?... Because it's not tier 4 yet, where you needed to push zones somewhat equally if you wanted to get to the city siege to get your Warlord/Sov/DF/WF pieces. No point in zerging Praag when Caledor is about to be taken by the opposite faction. It becomes a lot more push/pull.

Things to consider would be making people want to fight more over map objectives. More renown for kills on an objective? More blues/purples dropping at objectives? Maybe AAO effecting BO takes exp/rp? Make the small groups feel like they're helping their realm while getting rewarded?

Lindvior wrote:Death problem can be prevented, for example, introducing a no RR/XP gain after 20 secs (a healer can always ress you, and 20 secs are quite good), or lowering the respawn time from 5 mins to 1 so you can't leech.

Have you ever been in an actual RvR lake keep siege? It can take well over 20 seconds to get resurrected. Healers, assuming there are enough of them around to begin with since Open RvR is by nature random in what classes are available, have other things to do than throw out resurrections nonstop. And that's the healers that actually bother with healing. It's one thing to want to prevent AFK warcamp leeching, but this should not come at the cost of disabling rewards for legitimate playing just because you happen to be down when a larger reward trigger (for instance a kill you contributed to, or BO/zone lock) occurs. Or even respawned and going back into the action, which, let's be honest, can happen often too. The only thing this would achieve is discourage players from taking risks, so it'd encourage leeching in one form or another.