[Feedback] Changes of morale

[peterthepan3]

Defensive sets were too good not to use, pocket items provided lelz amount of Absorb, which would come in very handy if your enemy decided to pop Unleashed Power/WFB: you'd still take the 300 dmg, but would absorb a lot of the 'normal' hits. It would come in very handy if your enemy decided to use Excommunicate. We don't have access to such items or sets here, nor do we have (on the whole) the extortionately high levels of Wounds people could have at that point in the game.

Morale 1s aren't the main issue, you're right, which is why I've mentioned pumps in conjunction with Morale 3/4s being the issue several times.

Spoiler:

If you genuinely don't feel current gains are an issue (pre-most recent patch, as yet to test today's), I implore you to come up against a competent group doing nothing but Morale plays in current iteration, and get back to me on how fun it is. Largescale is 'fortunate' in the respect that there are more realistic morale drains: you aren't going to use an AoE marauder in smallscale, and Solar Flare does not make for a viable KOBS smallscale spec as you also lose ID. This is why I mentioned the importance of distingushing between smallscale and largescale when tackling this issue.

[roadkillrobin]

But all morals and morale rates are designed without those things in consideration. Those are added to the game at a later stage of it run. If we're gonna take higher tier gear of the this game's past life into consideration then we might as well make a argument that the renown point system need to change as well, as that system were added to the game when the new Sov or rr80+ gear was added and we don't have those items available to counter balance it.

[anarchypark]

Wasn't a problem on live making this a fallacy.
The main problem of Morales is due to individual morales and not the rate. This is a classic case of trying to cure a disease by hiding the symptoms.

Why do you think it was not a problem in live?
because their forum were silent about it?
AoR had a lot of problems and morale was part of it, as balance issue.

I won't repeat why it's bad for game. It's already mentioned enough.

[Bozzax]

Impressed how <insert anything unrelated> broken in AoR suddenly are arguments for <insert my opinion> on changed morale rates.

Kek it is like reading trump tweets

[roadkillrobin]

Wasn't a problem on live making this a fallacy.
The main problem of Morales is due to individual morales and not the rate. This is a classic case of trying to cure a disease by hiding the symptoms.

Why do you think it was not a problem in live?
because their forum were silent about it?
AoR had a lot of problems and morale was part of it, as balance issue.

I won't repeat why it's bad for game. It's already mentioned enough.

Live had a lot of issues but morale rates were never one of em.
They wouldn't have designed a mechanic and then 5 skills for every class exclusive to that mechanic and then make sure the mechanic regeneration were so slow that people wouldn't get to use them. Skills are meant to be used and they designed a Morale rate so people would get to use them. Imagine if you would nerf AP regen or the AP pool for everyone cos you found that some skills were overpowered. The morals are kept in check with their shared CD, the fact that you can't use them as openers, the amount you can slot and the CD length.

[Nameless]

Moral rates were never problem at live. Some specific overpowered morals - yes. But moral gain was pretty fine tuned and never was considered a problem. Can u imagine whole playerbase didnt had a problem with certain subject. That is how fine tuned were morals gains

[anarchypark]

Live had a lot of issues but morale rates were never one of em.
They wouldn't have designed a mechanic and then 5 skills for every class exclusive to that mechanic and then make sure the mechanic regeneration were so slow that people wouldn't get to use them. Skills are meant to be used and they designed a Morale rate so people would get to use them. Imagine if you would nerf AP regen or the AP pool for everyone cos you found that some skills were overpowered. The morals are kept in check with their shared CD, the fact that you can't use them as openers, the amount you can slot and the CD length.

it's not completely broken, but it was poorly designed.
RoR is getting better IMO. searching balanced morale rate.

after 20 morale.
m1 18
m2 36 ( 18 )
m3 90 ( 54 )
m4 180 ( 90 )

it's still fast IMO.
for example,
i don't think rdps getting morale punt in 18s is good design
it adds 1 more escaping tool at the end of 1 rotation.
-1200hp m2 in 36s... muliply it in wb crash.
it lead to morale pump/drain game in 30s.
it shadows every other skills.
why do we even need 20+ skills?

maybe designer had dps PoV. kill faster.
but beauty of orvr is in chaotic unending battle IMO.
finding opportunity and restoring order among chaos is fun.
30s bomb is too short to enjoy game.
that's my tank/heal PoV.

maybe m1 m2 too fast, m3 m4 too slow ?
18:36 vs 90:180
strange pair. effective of m3 m4 are not reflected by build time.
dps m2 too powerful.
more reason to focus on fast morale.
maybe m3 m4 have longer timer cuz it's grp aoe utility ( mostly )
but what's aoe dps doing in m2.
kinda balance issue. sensing dps oriented design.

[roadkillrobin]

It's not only the offensive buffs that gets delayed. The defensive ones to to aid against extremly aggresive or ambush attacks that leads to almost instant group wipes could be a bit more engaging if it didn't take almost 40 seconds from the engagement to pop a Armored Plating or Distracting Bellow for dps reduction, or Focused Mind to counter stun -> death for casters.

[Tesq]

I have seen an improvement over the 25 sec, based on smallacale sc to take more to reach m3 and i have also to wait sometimes which for me is positive as it add more a risk regarding moral use.

I kinda ok with the rate now for sc. Didnt test it with pump and in rvr tought.

[Aurandilaz]

36 m/s was the natural gain on live, and that did not shape 6v6 meta alone - class balance and gear balanced were way heavier. People assumed you had healers on standby with M2s for quick rez recovery and tanks able to use M4 every minute, something you just played with, and both sides being able to bring similar core morales. The few extra M4's with rare side effects, were really just rare - WH M4 being one overperforming case, does not mean you need to call in a napaln airstrike and burn the entire forest down because one tree is maybe bit higher than other ones.
Here we have all aspects of game we need to consider, ORVR, warbands, Scs, 6v6, PVE... if some morale overperforms in one aspect of the game, making E V E R Y O N E suffer from slow gains is not really justified. Class specific morales are part of game, part of combat itself and part of balance. If some single morale is too strong for some situation, then depending on that situation it might need some tweaking.

Also, good teams, whether 6man or warband, will be able to play and win despite enemies trying some "morale cheese" - if one side builds their whole team structure around getting that one nuke per every one minute, it will also be their Achilles heel. This is how Destro warbands just dealt, fought, and won vs BW stacks in past, your tanks build massive wound stacks, you bait enough BWs to launch morales, you pot while you get first ones hitting you, ypu punt 1-2 BWs away so prevent critical mass and your maras will have drained 1-2 BWs who fail to reach same time M2 drop as others, all preventing the highest possible critical bomb mass. Said "one trick pony" becomes the weak point, since you can predict it and once said trick has been played, the fight's now in your favour. Yes, sometimes it will reach critical mass and cause win, sometimes now. Sometimes something else is the reason why your team wipes.

It's just really tiresome to see core aspects of the game nerfed away and "swept under the rug" because people would rather complain "class X morale Y is too OP, nerf pls" - and nerf every morale gain for every class and every player, instead of coming to terms with the natural gain rates that people just played with, and played around, back on live.


[that being said, some of the weirder ROR changes to morale pumps/drains have to be tweaked;
-Sorc M2 bomb should not exist
-BW with strong M2 and self pump was always a ridiculous class balance choice
-WE/WH morale pump is really in a word spot right now
-Order lacking AoE drain akin to Maras (missing AoE WL balance)
-BORK fasta + Shaman group pump synergy
-weird as hell morale nerfs, ranging from AM M1, phys rdps M2 nerf, tank Raze nerf
All aforementioned need some tweaking, but it will be impossible to have a solid foundation for future balance without natural morale gain of 36 m/s]