Return of Reckoning

Ysaran wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 5:22 pm

Alfa1986 wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 2:11 pm

Sulorie wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 1:05 pm
Those people are not meant to have every available item in the game. Put some effort into it or skip it. It's not like you need it ti compete. Those, who don't want to pve, just don't get pve items. It is really simple.

to be honest, not such a small effort. for the bistlord may be but not for dungeons. first you need to find and assemble a group, in my experience it takes an average of one -two hours. then on each wing of the gunbad it takes at least an hour. We take the most unfortunate option when all things are received for quests, and in the end, 3 * 3 + 1 * 9 = 18 h. and it is necessary to spend it only for getting a ward for city dungeons and to get to the appendage by that moment there is absolutely no need for people red eye set. )) Not, I personally like dunges, but I also quite understand those who just do not want waste time on them.

This is a Massive Multiplayer Online Game, find yourself a guild (an active one, not an empty one lol), use discord to coordinate while offline and use the Destro PvE Discord, things will go much easier!
Too lazy for that? Your bad

oh thank you mate, good advice. just do not tell me why then so many people are looking for a party in dungeons / 5? I can tell you that it is much easier to recruit people for announcements than to create a const group, since in a constance you will encounter such problems as one cannot on that day, another ass suddenly fell ill, the third went to the barbecue , the fourth departed to Amsterdamat the fifth member grandmother died t, at the sixth, all this happened together at once, etc. so in order to preserve your nerves, my advice to you is to look for a party in the chat and quietly go to the dungeon, all this is normal for the usual middle party. everything, I am tired of writing the same thing in different words, either you don’t understand what I want to say or you understand even worse but in a distorted way.

Wards on live were attainable 5 different ways not just 1 pve route

vanbuinen77 wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 10:56 pm Wards on live were attainable 5 different ways not just 1 pve route

They were after several years and major patches, but we've gone way back to when they weren't.

adamthelc wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 6:04 pm

drmordread wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 1:54 pm

Hargrim wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 7:07 pm


How many times you need to be told that this game is not and never was just PvP / RvR game?

Sorry man, but I am going to respectfully disagree. WAR is a PvP game.

You can do all the PvE you want, day in and day out, but in order to fine tune, expand, and build up the attributes desired for your chosen class of play, you must go and kill another player.
Renown Points are only available in Player vs Player battles. Without Renown, the character you have created to play, is never finished. On top of that, on Live, Renown Gear is where the wards were on. You could not get into a dungeon unless you had appropriate level BiS gear earned in RvR.

All of that, makes WAR a Player vs Player based game.

Wards went through a lot of changes in live, but that is never how they worked.

Xcuse me, but yes it is.
To do bastion stairs, all I needed was Anni gear, because it gave me the wards. When I did Bastion Stair and Lost Vale, I did that in Anni as well. For LoTD If you did not have Invader for Wards, you would fail. (Though when it came out the best set for dps was a conq/invader mix, you still needed full conq wards and some Inv.)

You did not have to do a t2 dungeon to get into Gunbad. You did not have to do Gunbad to get into City dungeons, you did not have to do City dungeons to do other dungeons.

I played from Winter of 09 to closing. Never did Gunbad on any class, and only did 2 city dungeon runs to help out guildies with extra dps. My main dungeons were all was LoTD, and before that Lost Vale.

Sulorie wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 2:07 pm Are you unable to understand, what he wrote?

WAR is a game with strong emphasis on player vs player battles but it got a pve content side as well. Hargrim is just stating facts, facts nobody can disagree with. Having pvp as main reason to play the game doesn't remove the fact, that there is pve content too.
When you want to have all available rewards in the game, you have to do both but this is your personal choice.

No one is disagreeing with that. The problem is that on Live we did not have to crawl through Gunbad for gear we did not want just to get into Crypts. When you put on PvP armor you got the wards to do the appropriate level dungeon. First ever dungeon I did was Lost Vale or Bastion Stair, I forget which. I had the wards from PvP armor.

wargrimnir wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 11:18 pm

vanbuinen77 wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 10:56 pm Wards on live were attainable 5 different ways not just 1 pve route

They were after several years and major patches, but we've gone way back to when they weren't.

And the reason they were changed is because the devs at Mythic realized that their original system did not work, hense the placing of wards on PvP gear. And they had to.

As I already stated, when the main statistic any and ALL players build is Renown, and that is only attainable in PvP, you then have a PvP centered game. And that means that PvP armor needs to have the wards.

drmordread wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 12:10 am

wargrimnir wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 11:18 pm They were after several years and major patches, but we've gone way back to when they weren't.

And the reason they were changed is because the devs at Mythic realized that their original system did not work, hense the placing of wards on PvP gear. And they had to.

As I already stated, when the main statistic any and ALL players build is Renown, and that is only attainable in PvP, you then have a PvP centered game. And that means that PvP armor needs to have the wards.

That's certainly an opinion. Ours are different. That's why we do things differently.

You said you needed BiS PvP to get into dungeons. I'm pretty sure PvE gear always gave wards. Would have been pretty goofy for it not to. Besides that I think you could still get into dungeons even without the wards. You just did less and took more damage.

I wasnt saying PvP gear didnt get you into dungeons. I may be wrong, but I think when they introduced wards the PvP gear gave you the same wards as the same tier of dungeon gear.

Then when they made it a ToK unlock you had all sorts of goofy ways to get wards.

I like the way Mythic did wards, but it's a different situation here. So I dont really argue against the way they do things. I wish the first dungeon wards werent from Gunbad, but that's really my only complaint.

adamthelc wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 1:03 am You said you needed BiS PvP to get into dungeons. I'm pretty sure PvE gear always gave wards. Would have been pretty goofy for it not to. Besides that I think you could still get into dungeons even without the wards. You just did less and took more damage.

That is true. I did dungeons in live without PvP gear on.

adamthelc wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 1:03 am I wasnt saying PvP gear didnt get you into dungeons. I may be wrong, but I think when they introduced wards the PvP gear gave you the same wards as the same tier of dungeon gear.

That is true also. They stopped adding PvE gear when LoTD was introduced, and LoTD was untill the arrive of RR100 items the BiS, and was 90% PvE gear (you may be invaded in the instance though, but was extremely rare)

adamthelc wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 1:03 am Then when they made it a ToK unlock you had all sorts of goofy ways to get wards.

Yeah. You had to pass a lot of time in the endless book of grudges moving back, then forward, then back again

adamthelc wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 1:03 am I like the way Mythic did wards, but it's a different situation here. So I dont really argue against the way they do things. I wish the first dungeon wards werent from Gunbad, but that's really my only complaint.

And i finally agree with this.

You know I see all the pve and dev hate and it needs to be said that

RvR use to require you to put in effort to win gear... they nerfed it made it easier
CH22 use to be harder for you to win gear... they nerfed it made it easier
Gunbad use to be harder for you to acquire wards... they nerfed it made it easier

I see a pattern and it applies to other aspects also (like sc grind)...
Gunbad is pretty easy i've done it with different compositions and wide ranging skill levels (some not so good, self included and lowbie renown 31's and ruin gear) over 30 times on destro atleast... only one boss arguabably needs comms but not really (black squig for chest) 3 hours if pretty good team, 4 hours if team is slack needs afks or has some setbacks.
so with a slacky team 12 hours to get gunbad warded... 6 hours for city warded
with a better team 9 hours to get warded and 4 hours for city warded.

18 hours to be warded twice over months of play is in the bigger picture not a big deal... compared that to SC grinding... most the time is wasted waiting around for pops then you have to win and deal with the rng bad setups or L2P issues vs premades. The Issue I think most players have with PVE is time management and their ability to set aside 4 hours to do dungeon, but that is people's personal choice. (you could always break it down and just clearing certain wings instead of doing a full run everytime if thats all your time management can allow, then use discord channels to organise run's inadvance... no point showing up without a team and wishful thinking then complain)

PVE requires some teamwork and probably more focus than RVR imo which is a good thing... its not like you can just throw extra numbers at the problem.

In my opinion its not a slight but If a roleplay racial only(self handicapped) guild can own pve like the bitterstone thunderers merry bunch of dwarfs <3 can and do then nobody got a excuse to be honest... but maybe they are more hardcore than everyone else realises or they could just be drunk and lost in the mine again


As for CH22 Reikland and Caledor is farmable with solid 3FG if people do not slack... you can gain 3/5 ons np... really simple if not a active rvr zone or people leaching you.

CW on order requires full wb im affraid due to the RNG of transformation having too much a impact with less players

BC is probably possible with a solid 3FG just requires ton more effort and its one of the buggiest PQ's so can be harsh and unrewarding

KV on destro is also a bit buggy at times... again probably possible with a solid 3fg if you push it to the limits... easy with full wb if nobody slacks and understands their role.

Eataine... this is the harder PQ because its more time intensive than all the other PQ's, and also insanely high AOE damage compared to others... between realms there's a slight imbalance between difficulty most because of the timers allowing no room for mistakes and needing to keep a solid pace... but its not impossible especially if you have full wb.

All pretty do able with a 2-2-2 setup that is was designed for though even if pug.

RVR use to require hours of investment, being in a proper group or warband and getting hundreds of kills / contribution...
now you can get it showing up solo and barely doing anything of note.

So after all the hours dev's have put into reworking things, I think they should just remake one PQ in gunbad that you can bring warbands in to zerg it down and it drops full red eye in one gold bag, that takes 20 minutes maximum to complete with 3 minute respawn so everyone can do it even if people only have 30 minutes a day to play then everyone can be happy then can start poking dev's about lack of end game content again ;D instead of appreciate layers and layers of alternative content and options thats been added from hobbyists.

When PVP is dead or too zergy, there is PVE option big and small scale... there never use to be once upon time, more player choices can only be a good thing for the players.

As for grinding it... you know grinding on live had a 1/12 chance of drop per item? I teamed with a guy doing Burrows(a dok who would even solo heal it) weekly for over a year and his chest never dropped... thats over 50 runs, and sometimes would do extra run a week... instead you get it guaranteed in four runs here and its easier here because people don't take more or do less damage due to lack of wards as everyone is warded...

Lets see 50+ runs on your main and it still not get dropped... or four runs and its certain on everybody and character... mmmmm yes ROR dev's are completely unfair with their pve barriers ... but please lets complain more about pve and get everything nerfed some more just because reasons

By all means constructive feedback / criticise when its just... but be fair with your perception when its not

Part of me wishes they released CH22 in super hard mode to see the salty tears flow even more ... with exile troll knockbacks and 10K unmitigated AOE Spin to win you are going to die no matter what you do... you get the tamed and more reasonable version instead of steroids, just like how gunbad's been tamed and yet its still not enough... its never enough

Wam wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 2:53 amIn my opinion its not a slight but If a roleplay racial only(self handicapped) guild can own pve like the bitterstone thunderers merry bunch of dwarfs <3 can and do then nobody got a excuse to be honest... but maybe they are more hardcore than everyone else realises or they could just be drunk and lost in the mine again

Made my day but it's true in the end, we did dwarf-only Gunbad and City Dungeons thanks to our Ekrund Expedition (viewtopic.php?f=19&t=31261) leader Tibdum, well not Ch22 since getting a full dwarf WB is another topic, but bottom line it isn't much of a challenge getting 6 ppl together, drunk or not.

Only challenge that may make many people fear PvE grind is that Gunbad runs feel and are longer than a ~2hr full City Dungeon run imho, but with the new weapons there are more ppl willing to run Dungeons and I am looking forward to Bastion Stairs already.

Any plans on posting preview images of the new SC weapons? would be nice to be able to preview them