Return of Reckoning

footpatrol2 wrote:Fell of the Weak is incredibly good. It would be a huge mistake if you moved FA with Fell of the Weak.

Agreed that would only lead to strengthening skirmish as a main spec even further and as skirmish is already very strong buffing it by proxy would be a bad idea.

In what reality does FA hit for 4k damage? This is a thing of the past and could only be pulled off with UF against squishy targets, and only in specific circumstances (we're talking like 1% of the time).

No one is arguing for a change to the mastery trees. This would not fix Scout, nor make it worth speccing as a main tree.

dansari wrote:In what reality does FA hit for 4k damage? This is a thing of the past and could only be pulled off with UF against squishy targets, and only in specific circumstances (we're talking like 1% of the time).

No one is arguing for a change to the mastery trees. This would not fix Scout, nor make it worth speccing as a main tree.

He's not saying it does, that's just an extreme number from a theoretical explanation about how skills are bad against guarded targets, or something.

Edit: And someone has been trying to argue for changing FA to 13pt and making it a 2 second cast 0 sec CD.

lefze wrote:He's not saying it does, that's just an extreme number from a theoretical explanation about how skills are bad against guarded targets, or something.

Edit: And someone has been trying to argue for changing FA to 13pt and making it a 2 second cast 0 sec CD.

This just in Tesq, guard counters damage.

Sorry, to clarify, the discussion isn't centered around mastery trees. Moving FtW down is pretty clearly a buff to Skirmish, which does not fix Scout, does not fix Guerrilla Training, and does not make Scout worth it as a main spec.

Lefze -- you're arguing that the 1s decrease in cast time for Fester should be moved to Guerrilla Training?

dansari wrote:

lefze wrote:He's not saying it does, that's just an extreme number from a theoretical explanation about how skills are bad against guarded targets, or something.

Edit: And someone has been trying to argue for changing FA to 13pt and making it a 2 second cast 0 sec CD.

This just in Tesq, guard counters damage.

Sorry, to clarify, the discussion isn't centered around mastery trees. Moving FtW down is pretty clearly a buff to Skirmish, which does not fix Scout, does not fix Guerrilla Training, and does not make Scout worth it as a main spec.

Lefze -- you're arguing that the 1s decrease in cast time for Fester should be moved to Guerrilla Training?

More of a suggestion, as long as the 1 second cast time is considered I don't really mind, but in essence if it stays on enchanted arrow you get this: http://www.ror.builders/career/shadow-w ... 73,3972&t=

And seeing as Scout don't really have a lot of tactic options, I see no issue in requiring 2 speccable tactics for the core skill of the tree to function. The bonus here is that a potential buff requires actual investment in scout, and locks you out of the sweet stuff from speccing skirmish.

dansari wrote:In what reality does FA hit for 4k damage? This is a thing of the past and could only be pulled off with UF against squishy targets, and only in specific circumstances (we're talking like 1% of the time).

No one is arguing for a change to the mastery trees. This would not fix Scout, nor make it worth speccing as a main tree.

in no one read better what i wrote i said as an extremist exemple even if you buff FA dmg and make it x2 etc etc

For me, that rr60 build you posted would be fine. That could be a successful hybrid spec. I don't think granting a 1s cast time decrease on GT would be enough alone to be worth speccing into GT, which is why I like the 1s cast time decrease on EA. But if we only do that, I'm not sure we make Scout worth speccing as a main tree.

dansari wrote:For me, that rr60 build you posted would be fine. That could be a successful hybrid spec. I don't think granting a 1s cast time decrease on GT would be enough alone to be worth speccing into GT, which is why I like the 1s cast time decrease on EA. But if we only do that, I'm not sure we make Scout worth speccing as a main tree.

It's not fine at all tbh, it pretty much makes running hybrid 100% the meta, it will most likely blur the lines between scout and skirmish so much there is nothing left of the old, actual scout.

Impossible for me to say it definetly will be enough for everyone, but for me personally it's THE fix to push for. The identity of the spec is preserved, it won't just give skirmish a huge boost, and it actually makes the spec perform at a reasonable level. And obviously if it isn't enough, it's always possible to suggest further buffs.

Hmm, maybe a difference of opinion. Kind of off topic:
TLDR I think it's fine, but it still doesn't make Scout worth it as a main tree, and to make Scout worth it and to run a Scout/Skirmish spec I think GT needs to be modernized like Merc Soldier was.

dansari wrote:Hmm, maybe a difference of opinion. Kind of off topic:

Spoiler:

Why is a hybrid spec frowned upon? Hybrid specs is pretty much the identity of SW. Right now I'm running MS and SA from assault tree and Eye Shot, PD, and heal debuff from Skirmish tree. This is a hybrid spec, and it makes me feel like it's actually what SW is good at -- stance dancing based on situation. Running Skirmish/Scout is currently just running the core abilities from Skirmish (ES, PD, SS) and picking up Glass Arrow. At least this change would force SWs to change stances (and run a tactic dedicated to practically 1 ability) to be a stronger hybrid.

TLDR I think it's fine, but it still doesn't make Scout worth it as a main tree, and to make Scout worth it and to run a Scout/Skirmish spec I think GT needs to be modernized like Merc Soldier was.

I don't really have an issue with hybrid specs, but when a spec gains the strongest part of a completely different spec without sacrificing anything, it's out of line imo. Look at it like this, someone who sees their ideal spec as full scout, would have to give up FtW to even get PD, let alone the knockdown. On the other hand, a player that wants to focus most on the skirmish side of things, gives up what to get a huge burst skill? A single tactic slot. It is just one mans opinion, but I really believe that there should be certain restrictions to what one spec can get for free from others.

Edit: And frankly, the fact that one spec of a class is underperforming should not be used as a cloak to ninjabuff the other specs.