Return of Reckoning

zumos2 wrote:

Miszczu5647 wrote:

peterthepan3 wrote:Is there a reason why Bl for wp is willpower and ws/parry strike through? Just curious. Would be nice to have str instead of wp

Maybe this set was designed with .ab ex changes in mind? Like shaman ones?

BL is not good for the experimental mode for shaman. I find it amazing how RP/ZL get perfect stats which they don't need because their mechanic and AM/Shaman/WP/DoK get dogshit mixed stats

I play lifetap healer. Sometimes there is opportunity to dps. Before BL my bunch of Waaagh hit for 220 in first tick. Now it hits for 500 (saw even 750 crit). And I lose nothing from my heal. It's a good set for lifetaper.

I will say that weapon skill does absolutely nothing for melee healers as proven in the thread that I posted. The parry it gives is voided out by all str. The armor pen it gives it nearly entirely negligible. If it was an str/willpower bonus, and the set didn't have WS on every piece, then I can see how it would be viable but since WS changes were made from live to ROR it really makes it a pointless stat unless you reach the cap so again I don't recommend anyone goes for 5/6 pc bonuses when you can get 3/3/2 type of bonuses but I'm sure other classes were more fortunate.

freshour wrote:I will say that weapon skill does absolutely nothing for melee healers as proven in the thread that I posted. The parry it gives is voided out by all str. The armor pen it gives it nearly entirely negligible. If it was an str/willpower bonus, and the set didn't have WS on every piece, then I can see how it would be viable but since WS changes were made from live to ROR it really makes it a pointless stat unless you reach the cap so again I don't recommend anyone goes for 5/6 pc bonuses when you can get 3/3/2 type of bonuses but I'm sure other classes were more fortunate.

Is BL set designed for melee dok?

I know BG got a little of the shaft in this too. 5% disrupt isn't bad... But I'd rather have 5% parry which helps vs guard damage.... Also debuff resists, of which BG does no non phys damage... So I feel your pain and that pieces 5 and 6 are largely not worth it (I could be wrong though...) But seems I'd rather grab 2 ruin for armor or 2 of another set instead... IDK

freshour wrote:I will say that weapon skill does absolutely nothing for melee healers as proven in the thread that I posted. The parry it gives is voided out by all str. The armor pen it gives it nearly entirely negligible. If it was an str/willpower bonus, and the set didn't have WS on every piece, then I can see how it would be viable but since WS changes were made from live to ROR it really makes it a pointless stat unless you reach the cap so again I don't recommend anyone goes for 5/6 pc bonuses when you can get 3/3/2 type of bonuses but I'm sure other classes were more fortunate.

What changes were made to WS, compared to live?

And I also second that BL for WP is quite useless. I know some use it as a healing set, because of the extra armor and resists it gives - but all the WS and reduced chance to be parried is quite useless in this setup. As a dps set/hybrid set all the willpower is useless.

I would personally suggest to swap all the willpower on the set (including the 2nd bonus) with strength. And possibly the 3rd bonus changed to +5% parry instead of +5% reduced chance to be parried - as this bonus is already available on Dominator. If that were done, it would make BL viable as a defensive melee set - useful for both melee healers and more straight-up dps-WPs.

^ i use 3pc for the ws as I like to have at least 490ws on wp, but dat willpower.

Specialpatrol wrote:

freshour wrote:I will say that weapon skill does absolutely nothing for melee healers as proven in the thread that I posted. The parry it gives is voided out by all str. The armor pen it gives it nearly entirely negligible. If it was an str/willpower bonus, and the set didn't have WS on every piece, then I can see how it would be viable but since WS changes were made from live to ROR it really makes it a pointless stat unless you reach the cap so again I don't recommend anyone goes for 5/6 pc bonuses when you can get 3/3/2 type of bonuses but I'm sure other classes were more fortunate.

What changes were made to WS, compared to live?

And I also second that BL for WP is quite useless. I know some use it as a healing set, because of the extra armor and resists it gives - but all the WS and reduced chance to be parried is quite useless in this setup. As a dps set/hybrid set all the willpower is useless.

I would personally suggest to swap all the willpower on the set (including the 2nd bonus) with strength. And possibly the 3rd bonus changed to +5% parry instead of +5% reduced chance to be parried - as this bonus is already available on Dominator. If that were done, it would make BL viable as a defensive melee set - useful for both melee healers and more straight-up dps-WPs.

Because on Live stat bypass(str through parry, int through disrupt etc) effected EVERYTHING. Your defenses from stats, items, RR, abilities, tactics, etc. The stat boost was a way to help defend against that a little more.

So basically, on LIVE, stacking WS was a "buffer" because when people stacked STR, if you didnt have enough WS, the strength would go through your WS and start diminishing your parry % from renown/gear.

Here STR can only maximally go through your WS, and since everyone goes for primary stat (str), youll 100% of the time have enough to pass through their weaponskill MEANING, weaponskill really doesnt provide any parry %....

Also the % of weapon skill granting armor pen, doesnt scale very well... So you have to basically soft cap it to see a noticeable difference from using it, versus say using STR.


Frankly, weapon skill is an area they should "beef up" IMO.
1) I dont know the formula's but think it could be cool to see something like a 2:1 ratio on the parry, so that in order to "counter' the parry from 400 WS, you would need 800 Str to get through it all. Allowing someone to stack 500 or 600 weapon skill and actually increase their parry above softcap STR (~1000)

2) Armor is OP. We all know this and Az admits this. So increasing the % ARP on weaponskill would give it ANOTHER way to provide benefits.

Right now its pretty much STR > WS almost 100% of the time...

If you increased the value of the parry from WS, as well as the value of ARP from WS, it might start to be more a tradeoff (it seems to me).


I would wager the same thing goes for Willpower and disrupt. I would look at making it a 2:1 thing there too, so a healer with 500 Willpower, you would need 1000 INT to go through that. Anything extra is "gravy" in terms of actual disrupt %.

Same with Ballistic Skill (and the stat that counters it? I forget, is it WS?)

You see my point. It starts adding more "options" than just "max your primary damage stat first".

peterthepan3 wrote:^ i use 3pc for the ws as I like to have at least 490ws on wp, but dat willpower.

From everything that I have tested. The WS from BL is essentially nothing. Anyone who hits you will have the STR to bypass your RR/WS parry, and anyone who casts on you will have the int to eat through your RR/Willpower Disrupt. So in reality... you are just getting a good wounds/str cloak and for melee healers the -2% parry and +2% parry cloak is better than a cloak with 100 ws lol... because that 2% parry is unaffected by their WS. and the -2% parry eats through their gear parry which your WS won't even touch.

The moral of the story. Unless you soft cap WS, it is a tertiary stat to Str/Wounds, and unless you max melee power and softcap str, WS is essentially negligible. I had around 850 str and 680 WS and dropped WS down to 300 and there wasn't any noticeable difference in me parrying, or my damage like at all.

But you can check my thread to see the conversation or take our word for it or go test it but all will yield the same conclusion haha.

Cheers for the input. I've opted for the parry cloak now.

Shamman/AM bonuses are the wierdest stat mix I ever seen. 240 armor for robe healer? We are already naked. 240 armor doesnt change this. I would rather see 58 inteligence insted if Beastlord set is meant for lifetap build, or 58 toughnes or 58 wounds. 5% reduced chance to be disrubted-It does make sence only if 240 armor bonus is replaced with inteligence.

Some classes has WoW bonuses like chosen for example. They can debuff rezist and with beastlord they can also debuff armor. The same for BG who can debuff armor and with BL he can also debuff rezist.
Or parry/disrubt reduction + stats for dpsers.
But Shamman/AM is just meh

I would rather wear T3 dps or T3 healing sets which gives mainstat for theyr purposes, more crit for theyr purposes and cast time reduction.

Telperien wrote:Beastlord set or at least 3-4 bonus with cloak/belt/jewelery/pocket would be nice for lifetap healing shammy if it had something else for inteligence on pieces. Int is useless in that spec.

Bleed fer me belong to single target life tap too. It contribute from inteligence, not willpower so inteligence has it sence.