[Feedback] Engineer / Magus Changes

[GodlessCrom]

Lektrolev's ideas are all terrible, and it's pretty clear he just wants the class nerfed into uselessness. Squig herders are fine, and have been fine for a long time: Engineers have been, by and large, rather poor and only recently have they and Magi been performing on a level equal with other ranged dps. Lektrolev seems to be looking at Engineers as this mythical tri-spec god-mode toon that doesn't exist. Engi/Magus is either ST spec and doing a lot of burst damage every 10 seconds to one person, or they are Grenadier spec and AoEing people for a lot of fluff damage that kills no one, or they are Tinker spec which is like Grenadier spec but I guess they live longer in 1v1 (still drop like flies if you actually know how to focus fire someone btw). No Magus does all three, and they are only benefitting from one turret at a time, and that is usually the turret for their spec. So a Rifleman Engi isn't gonna have 32% dodge/disrupt, and a Tinker Engi isn't gonna have 40% dmg/range buff.

Bright Wizards and Sorcs still do more damage for less effort with better mobility. Squig herders are still one of the best solo classes in the game, and if you're worried about Engis than I don't know what to say. The Tinker spec ones have low range, the Grenadier ones have low burst dmg (i.e. if one kills you, you were gonna die anyways) and the Rifleman ones...well, yeah they can kill you quick. Boohoo, they're a dps, it's their god damn job.

[Glorian]

Lektrolev's ideas are all terrible, and it's pretty clear he just wants the class nerfed into uselessness. Squig herders are fine, and have been fine for a long time: Engineers have been, by and large, rather poor and only recently have they and Magi been performing on a level equal with other ranged dps. Lektrolev seems to be looking at Engineers as this mythical tri-spec god-mode toon that doesn't exist. Engi/Magus is either ST spec and doing a lot of burst damage every 10 seconds to one person, or they are Grenadier spec and AoEing people for a lot of fluff damage that kills no one, or they are Tinker spec which is like Grenadier spec but I guess they live longer in 1v1 (still drop like flies if you actually know how to focus fire someone btw). No Magus does all three, and they are only benefitting from one turret at a time, and that is usually the turret for their spec. So a Rifleman Engi isn't gonna have 32% dodge/disrupt, and a Tinker Engi isn't gonna have 40% dmg/range buff.

Yes. There is no Engineer with all three things activated. A rifleman Engie wouldn't take a dodge Turret as this would completeley negate his range to 40 feet. And a Gunturret could only help an tinkerer in a Siege to get some Rifle, or Grenade Abilities down on the Attackes. Both Trees where he have 0-5 points in and can hardly do any damage.

And also yes: Lektrolev's ideas are all Terrible. As Grunbag says, you will have a more bad Engineer than on live. And compared to the Squig I would take each of the Engie buffs halved if they were up in an instant like on squiggy.

[Grunbag]

I will await commentary from the likes of Karast, Ravai and Pan regarding the effect of lowering the Magus and Engineer range bonus to 20% max.

This is something I d agree to experiment . As Adei said , maybe the unfair buff engineer / magus got is the extra range bonus , let's test it with 20% range buff and see if it make the class more balanced or if it take back the class useless .

[Tesq]

i dont understand why you wana have all differente range across first path and sub-optimal range on mid path compared to other rdps.

Firts path have skill that goes from 80 to 100 to finally 150 instead just give a 40% or less range buff just put everything to 150 feet. They are essentially min 50 feet more than any bw/sorc while stationary and no 200 feet skill. Regardless everything should have the same distance. If you want extra range for finish a kiting target stay a bit more near. this will make the class stay around 130 feet from the target actally impose a self range nerf.

The range remove from flamer turrer/deamon basically kill that turret, pre nerf was better. The mid path need to have a 85-100 feet range with a tactic that allow you to move to 110-125.

[Grunbag]

So you suggest to remove all range buff / debuff ?

Edit :
Just got what you said : I think dev already said they can't modify a abilities range without having the client control yet

[Tesq]

i know that too, but since ppl are complaining about range the issue are the max range which is over 200 feet and the window of time engi/magus have before you exit that range so you wait till you can spam most of your stuff then later finish with the things that can hit further.

Since the buff really helped the classes maybe engi/magus need a more standardized range for each mastery, if we have to wait for client controll so be it.

[Grunbag]

i know that too, but since ppl are complaining about range the issue are the max range which is over 200 feet and the window of time engi/magus have before you exit that range so you wait till you can spam most of your stuff then finish with the things that can hit further.

Since the buff really helped the classes maybe engi/magus need a more standardized range for each mastery, if we have to wait for client controll so be it.

I agree with you, we can also try a 20% range buff to see how sniper rotation works with lower range than the current one ?
For mid range path , you already have a tactic that gives you extra range for mid range path abilities

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

i know that too, but since ppl are complaining about range the issue are the max range which is over 200 feet and the window of time engi/magus have before you exit that range so you wait till you can spam most of your stuff then finish with the things that can hit further.

Since the buff really helped the classes maybe engi/magus need a more standardized range for each mastery, if we have to wait for client controll so be it.

I agree with you, we can also try a 20% range buff to see how sniper rotation works with low range than actually ?
For mid range path , you already have a tactic that gives you extra range for mid range path abilities

you can try go with a 20% but you will still have a big window (which dosen't chance; ex snipe have 150 range and all other stuff have 80-100; there will still be a 50-70 feets of window from the first skill used regardless the range buff) which allow you the easier get the distance due to skills have different ranges so that you get the min range possible of all the first mastery and then keep hit until the target do not exit from the range window which the further it go the more skill are stronger (ex: snipe/BoC). The window itself wont change as long all range are not the same in every path. Magus/engi should create that window not have it by default looking at the skills number be red or white. They should stay more nearer self imposing a lower range of 120-130 in order to achive that 20-30feet window that allow 1 last skill , very powerfull as finisher if the target start to run away.

That tactic is a waste; the 4th tactic from the mid path need always to be ap tactic because the consume it's too high, that put that tactic in a bad spot because the only reason why you would like to take it if it's you want to play safer doing the same dmg of the first path which mean mid path should do more dmg with out that tactic but also be more front liners (engi diff from this because it have not any crit tactic on mid path).
Either the focus of the engi/magus buff was then wrong place because actually the mid path is taken in support to the first or not at all, or the mid path need a very great improvement and be the focus on the( let's say )competitive buff while the first path should be left as a long range and not high dmg path.

Im a little for both but also enforce different play style, so for me it's all a matter of same range / too low range and lack of mobility. Both classes dmg actually from first mastery are ok; dmg or killing potential from mid is not.
All mastery should take the 40% dmg increase and be linked to stay in pet range and then have a secondary eff that allow that mastery to play effectively with out be linked to that mastery pet but directly to skills (all mid mastery skill, all first mastery skill etc). Should be a higer range than other mastery/rdps for first path (because longer cast time), mobility for mid etc (because they require you to stay more near but differently from bw/sorc everything have a cast time).

that's why im also against the dodge/disrupt buff, engi/magus can do all their rotation with out this buff and under hold the line it's like have a tank against those dmg. Maybe it's for heavy counter sorc/bw /sw/squig dmg as the range buff show me happened in small skirmsh but im a bit troubled by those high %. If it was for counter high the sorc/bw aoe then it would be better something general and not spec related and class related. i Think the secondary eff need to serve the purpose of make the skills combo more effective this mean generally not only dmg buff or dmg reduction buff but even a guard vs any cheesy tactic which disrupt the class rotation while aoe which for me are CD increase mostly because my magus have only 1 good aoe spamable skill while bw/sorc go around spam channeling. Either allow me to bypass dodge/disrupt for my dots or allow me to spam my aoe ingornig CD decrease it's solid. IF bw/sorc doing more dmg raw i will do more dmg with dots due bypassing the nemy defense or either be immune to cd decrease..

[Glorian]

i know that too, but since ppl are complaining about range the issue are the max range which is over 200 feet and the window of time engi/magus have before you exit that range so you wait till you can spam most of your stuff then finish with the things that can hit further.

Since the buff really helped the classes maybe engi/magus need a more standardized range for each mastery, if we have to wait for client controll so be it.

I agree with you, we can also try a 20% range buff to see how sniper rotation works with lower range than the current one ?
For mid range path , you already have a tactic that gives you extra range for mid range path abilities

Yes. But tactic puts middle path on 85 feet with tactic. Tesq was more in the 100-110 feet Range with middle.

I also think that ranges in the abilities makes it much easier for the different trees.

And for a 20% Range Boost could be good. Although I would be more on the 30% front.
But if it is 20%. Then 20% in half the time. Currently it takes 8 secs to achieve 20% on your way to full buff.
No way you could get an sniper to stand still 16 secs for +20 feet on the range.

@tesq:
He has a good point. Left, middle, right tree is in the tree and abilities not in the turret. The turret has the damage Boost. Range, mobile attacks, tanky-Tinkerer are in the abilities.

[Grunbag]

I totally agree with you : grenadie path should have a better burst than rifleman path cause rifleman have benefits of range , and grenadie path is more exposed to mdps / caster .

If you don't gives dodge / disrupt to tinkerer path , what would you give instead ? Toughness ? Crit reduction?