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[Eng/Magus] Sticky Bombs / Seed of Chaos

https://returnofreckoning.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18396

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Re: [Engineer - Magus] Sticky bombs / Seed of chaos

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:18 pm
by Grunbag
Spoiler:
Tesq wrote:wp/dok both have heal debuff (with changes wp also was buffed to 50% rather than 25%, now with changes withdraw idk about future implementation)
WL/mara both have heal debuff (mara can be upgrade to 50%)
slayer/Choppa (both 50%)
we/wh(both 50%)
sw/squig(both 50%)
bw( 50% only bw)

with out
engi/magus/sorc

could also go due to burst reason, since you have less burst than then left mastery, if engi prove to have more burst potential then a wounds debuff would be better due being slightly badder than a heal debuff. Tought idk the state of mid engi right know and the ammount of dmg it can put up
I don't believe a ST wound debuff in a aoe tree would fit any proposal . Since magus and engineer mid tree are different , we can't go on ST debuff I think . OP was that having a weak ST dot can't find a place in a aoe tree , that's why karast focused on explosion proc of the ability .

Maybe penril could tell us if the solution have to be te same for magus and engineer or if we can propose a solution for sticky bomb different than the seed of chaos solution ?

It seems that engineers and magus doesn't look for the same thing in that tree .

Re: [Engineer - Magus] Sticky bombs / Seed of chaos

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:10 pm
by Tankbeardz
I've given up on the balance forums.

Re: [Engineer - Magus] Sticky bombs / Seed of chaos

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:13 pm
by porkstar
Tankbeardz wrote:I've given up on the balance forums.
This topic is especially difficult since the middle tree is a lot of dots and weak aoe then there's the one ST ability. Then, the most powerful (according to mastery) ability is a ground target aoe that can just be avoided except in situational funnels. Then, the other mastery ability is a weird straight line of physical(?) dmg and KB (for the engie). I think turret buff was a good place to start but so much cleansing and weak synergy is still problems for middle tree and deserves a more encompassed examination rather than just buffing Stinky Bomb.

Re: [Engineer - Magus] Sticky bombs / Seed of chaos

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:51 pm
by Grunbag
Just checked mid magus tree : path of changing : this is not a ST treebut like engineer mid tree this is a aoe tree .

So I don't see the point to change sticky bomb to aoe ability .

This tree is not so difficult to balance .
What it needs is aoe powerful abilities .acutally both sticky bomb and strafin run don't worth any mastery points .

In magus mid tree , indigo actually seems great as a aoe ability , that's why I think only seed of chaos need a change .

IMO having nitroglycerin grenade at 6 points instead of sticky bomb and sharpnel grenade at 9 points insead of strafin run would make grenadier tree more efficient .

For magus mirroring nitroglycerin grenade ? Or giving a heal debuff for realm balance ?

Re: [Engineer - Magus] Sticky bombs / Seed of chaos

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:01 pm
by Tankbeardz
Grunbag wrote:Just checked mid magus tree : path of changing : this is not a ST treebut like engineer mid tree this is a aoe tree .

So I don't see the point to change sticky bomb to aoe ability .

This tree is not so difficult to balance .
What it needs is aoe powerful abilities .acutally both sticky bomb and strafin run don't worth any mastery points .

In magus mid tree , indigo actually seems great as a aoe ability , that's why I think only seed of chaos need a change .

IMO having nitroglycerin grenade at 6 points instead of sticky bomb and sharpnel grenade at 9 points insead of strafin run would make grenadier tree more efficient .

For magus mirroring nitroglycerin grenade ? Or giving a heal debuff for realm balance ?
IFoC is a ST ability. It mirrors the engineer's Focused Fire (engi's get this by default, magus has to spec into it) except that it is magic damage and provides much slower burst.

Re: [Engineer - Magus] Sticky bombs / Seed of chaos

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:27 am
by Grunbag
Ok by reading the ability description thought it was aoe .

It doesn't change my proposal I think

Re: [Engineer - Magus] Sticky bombs / Seed of chaos

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:59 pm
by footpatrol2
How about no radical change and you just increase the damage a little on both abilities. Small easy to digest changes.

On my magus I line up all my ST/AoE dots on one target and then hit it with IFoC when the target is around 15% as I'm sure everyone else does. Seed of chaos is just another dot in that sequence. Its just part of the burst cycle. Magus's/Engineers have long setup times to their burst cycle's.

About the mist/napalm:
Spoiler:
How many SC's are based on objectives where you need to take over a flag or take a part. Basically all of them. You also have battle objectives in ORvR and you have choke points in your keep unless it is rank 0 (currently). Battle objectives in ORvR kinda act like a SC flag where your trying to take the objective.

You place the mist/napalm on the objectives/flag or on the person holding the part in a sc. Park the person holding the part in the napalm and guard/protect him. if part person gets punted go back to the mist/napalm. If your running a zealot/runepriest in your group comp place the self rez on the part holder this increases his toughness and he can self rez when he dies from holding the part. You want the part holder to die in the mist/napalm. If the part player dies while in the napalm/mist good because the napalm/mist is now denying the opposition from picking up the part as a damage shield.

It serves a dual purpose as a area point denial when trying to take a objective/flag and as a damage shield if your trying to defend. Your literally making it painful for the opposition to try and take the flag/objective. The napalm/mist also interrupts players from capturing the flag. Its super simple and not hard to figure out. If you place your napalm/mist just out in the open and not in key strategic locations of course napalm/mist is not going to do anything.

Re: [Engineer - Magus] Sticky bombs / Seed of chaos

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:59 pm
by Grunbag
footpatrol2 wrote:How about no radical change and you just increase the damage a little on both abilities. Small easy to digest changes.

On my magus I line up all my ST/AoE dots on one target and then hit it with IFoC when the target is around 15% as I'm sure everyone else does. Seed of chaos is just another dot in that sequence. Its just part of the burst cycle. Magus's/Engineers have long setup times to their burst cycle's.

About the mist/napalm:
Spoiler:
How many SC's are based on objectives where you need to take over a flag or take a part. Basically all of them. You also have battle objectives in ORvR and you have choke points in your keep unless it is rank 0 (currently). Battle objectives in ORvR kinda act like a SC flag where your trying to take the objective.

You place the mist/napalm on the objectives/flag or on the person holding the part in a sc. Park the person holding the part in the napalm and guard/protect him. if part person gets punted go back to the mist/napalm. If your running a zealot/runepriest in your group comp place the self rez on the part holder this increases his toughness and he can self rez when he dies from holding the part. You want the part holder to die in the mist/napalm. If the part player dies while in the napalm/mist good because the napalm/mist is now denying the opposition from picking up the part as a damage shield.

It serves a dual purpose as a area point denial when trying to take a objective/flag and as a damage shield if your trying to defend. Your literally making it painful for the opposition to try and take the flag/objective. The napalm/mist also interrupts players from capturing the flag. Its super simple and not hard to figure out. If you place your napalm/mist just out in the open and not in key strategic locations of course napalm/mist is not going to do anything.
Things are different for engineer : all abilities from grenadier path are aoe except firebomb and sticky bomb . All the other abilities are aoe .
Thats why a weak ST dot is not what grenadier need . Maybe the OP is different for magus (as I understand magus use sticky bomb already but not engineers)

If you feel magus only need to have more dmg on SoC that's something other magus might confirmed , then it could be the solution for magus part .

I think engineer need something else .

I don't understand why you talk about napalm/mist ?

Re: [Engineer - Magus] Sticky bombs / Seed of chaos

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:20 pm
by Penril
I don't understand why Napalm was mentioned as well. Stick to discussing Sticky bomb/SoC.

Re: [Engineer - Magus] Sticky bombs / Seed of chaos

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:42 pm
by Tesq
Penril wrote:I don't understand why Napalm was mentioned as well. Stick to discussing Sticky bomb/SoC.
was me i proposed to rework these skill for 13 pt and so lower napalm /diss in mastery to have swomethinng wort st in mid path and being able to take pots with rift easier; 2 pigey with 1 pokeball
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