(Mythic) origins of balance

[footpatrol2]

Greenskinz can go Crazy on a coordinated Chop faster push but has a 2 min down time.

High elves can go nuts basically every 30 sec's.

[footpatrol2]

When I say 10k dmg morale drop i'm talking about the 30ft aoe morale dump.

The Chaos bomb is slow and grinding and constant the bomb is always there in the mist. Your constantly eating anything that gets close which ruins coordinated morale pushes. With chaos your lowering the oppositions chance to have a morale dump by the monstrocity marauder.
The Dwarf bomb is slow and grinding and constant the bomb is always there in the napalm.
Your trying to Outlast the opponents damage and not die for the morale dump.

The playstyles above allow your healers to safely sit in the bomb and heal away and rez fully protected. But your horrendously slow and vulnerable when you move. These groups can't build morale fast for the morale dump but probably have the best morale dumps.

The Greenskins is Melee train CHOMP. Uses snares offensively and defensely. can go nutz every 2 minutes. Has the fastest morale bootsers. Can drop the 10k dmg fastest out of everyone. Healers hide behind the snares and lots of access to instant rezing.

HE is melee train Kite and strike. Uses snares offensively and defensely. Can place a bomb every 30 sec's. Can go Crazy every 20 sec's for 10 sec's with whisper. Doesn't have an amazing morale push. Its still there but not as stong. A large portion of the morale dump comes from the WL. He had the highest damaging morale dump where his pet and him did 1200 dmg each to surrounding targets within 30 ft in the hunter path. But if your able to kill key targets your stripping the opposition from a Morale dump.

The greenskinz/HE protect thier healers with snares. The HE can also not pounce bomb if targets are getting to close. Meaning you can still pounce but don't have to burn the M2 of the SM since to opposition is walking into your AoE snares from AM's.

[footpatrol2]

ok Chaos Rift bomb

1 rift group
2 close range mist groups

Rift.
2 or 3 Aoe knockdowns from monstrocity mauraders to ensure everyone is knocked down.
All 18 members activate Mark of the vortex zealot ability which comes from his buff.
This saves you 1 GCD of having to spend AP while still doing damage. So it helps with ap regen.
Tool tip says 349 per 30 ft AoE. So thats 18 times 349 damage. 6142 damage over 9 sec's that was AP free. You have 1 more GCD to spend before they get up. Do what ever. Once they get up then start the cycle of winds of insanity so the pulled group still can't do anything till they slowly get knocked away while you still keep applying AoE.

[footpatrol2]

So the meta goes even further then what it seems with racial groups.

If you look you will notice that all racial groups have a tactic that is a resist tactic. I think this is suppose to be used when your facing your counter racial warband. If your know your going to face High elves as a Greenskin warband You Could have a resist tactic to counter their main damage type. Meaning As a organized warband You would have a preset Tactics for facing High elves. Everyone in the Warband could switch on the fly. High elves are the natural counter to a greenskinz warband.

I haven't figured out all the main damage types from the racial warbands yet I'll get back to you on the rest.

What you guys think?

[footpatrol2]

Ok lets take a closer look at this greenskins/high elf 12 man.

We'll focus on the Greenskins and talk later about the High Elves later.

The Greenskinz bomb I think is a natural counter to the bright wizard bomb. As the high elves WERE a natural counter.
So the meta if I remeber is everyone stands in bomb with a BW grp. And he has to be able to channel.

12 man BW bomb group min/max whatever.

Give me equally skilled open minded 12 greenskin players.

Here we go. In the lakes or a SC I interact with a bomb group. Probably get wiped but now I know I'm facing a bomb group. Try and pick a fight with open spaces or corners to make max use of snares. I might even potentially switch tactics because I know i'm facing a Bomb group. Switch tactics as a group to the most ideal.

Greenskins Kite mode.
BO's switch guard to healers.
SH keeps us in combat with pling having the longest range in game.
Choppas provide passive AoE around healers to counter assassin squads.
We are waiting for the BO's morale 3. If the bomb group lets us we'll wait till 4 for 10k 30ft morale dump.
We kite with access to 4 placable AoE snares and 2 AoE Snares coming from our da boss bo's We engage as far as possible from them.
If you try and attack our shield BO's good your helping us get to morale 3 via you see me block dat tactic.
If you try and attack our shamans good your raising our morale from guard damage.
If you manage to kill a healing shaman fine we have access to instant rez and don't depend on shamans for morale dump.
If we are taking a lot of long range damage Hold the line as needed, cycle challenge.
If you try and melee my bo's good your raising my morale even more by block damage and me striking back from ere we go.
We try to use as little snares as possible to achieve this. Might have to burn a SH snare which decreases our M4 bomb.
If something gets in our back line like a assassin squad fine we turn and kill it raising our morale even more. As long as the assassin squad isn't supported by tanks we should be fine. The tanks should be snared. Non SM tanks can't get to us anyway.

As a grp beside's healers we try to conserve AP before strike mode.

Once M3 Bo's are up we switch to offensive.

Strike mode.
BO's switch guard to SH stabba's and Choppa's.
SH Stabba switches back into squig armor
All AoE reserve snares, Snares placed on target. We are offensively snaring now.
BO's hold the line to target with guarded choppa's and SH closely behind.
Bomb group makes it to Target.

Now I have options now.
I can M4 dump for 10k dmg and either Straight kill everything. If everyone is bunched up this is a option. I might not half a full dump but my BO's can drop a 4800 unmitigatable morale dump.
Or If targets are spread out I'll delay my BO m3's.
I'll probably pop at least 2 BO silences to try and ensure I get everyone. Since the Meta is to keep bomb groups tight I like this. I don't want to have to run around and find ya.
I can stagger my m3 Bo's silences whats the immunity timers? 10 sec? 20 sec? 30 sec? I can save 1 or 2 for clean up and wait till immunity's are over.

On BOMB.
Shaman's that were able to save for their Racial M4 pops it.
Choppa's M4 pop. AoE knockdown at least one of em are wrecka. Not sure If its best to take 2 Wrecka or 1 Wreck and a Hitta.
SH stabba M4 pop.
Chop Faster
Group does as much damage as possible.
Start the Cycle of Bad Gas.
BO's pop Get em 2 Da Brawler BO's Spam Tree hit combo for Max AOE Stat steal Which if there is two A High likelyhood that initiative will be debuffed. The Stat Steal is more about Debuffing then buffing.
If there's Da Green shaman's they spam Fury of Da Green.
Basically a hell of a lot of pain.

If I'm taking too much damage as the opposing bomb group is trying to bomb back as they wake up. I can AoE Knockback and go single target or go back into kite mode.
If something is died They are now in a Rez cycle. Then its mop up. Wait on immunity timers for a 2nd BO m3 drop. Perfect for deleting a rez cycle.

OK thats Greenskinz bomb.

Want to run against this grp with a min/max single target melee train?
Maybe my natural non morale dump Melee AoE dmg can't handle a single target melee train even with Bad Gas constantly cycling. But my M4 can. Kite mode wait for M4 bomb.

So you wiped me with your bomb group and i'm sitting at my graveyard. Pling and build up m4 morale dump.

What counters Greenskin bomb. WL melee train or a HE 12 man. A greenskin bomb should counter a Dwarf bomb but greenskinz would have to make the push on m3 and can't wait for a dwarf m4 which is nasty. Its basically the same tactics. Also what counters this is heavy Assassin squads. Most run of the mill min/max melee trains can be dealt with in this group.

Now at group 3 and 4 of greenskinz. Oh it just gets dirty.

[footpatrol2]

I didn't say this but I think its obvious. The BW bomb doesn't work unless your in melee range to bomb.

[Penril]

I didn't say this but I think its obvious. The BW bomb doesn't work unless your in melee range to bomb.

You won't be in melee range either since your whole plan consists on kiting until you get to M4. By the time you engage, they will also have their morales available. Not to mention many other tools your group lacks (being Greenskin-only).

Just as an example, a few well-placed engie mines can screw your whole plan.

Speaking of Engies... how do you plan on kiting against Magnet? Yup... Engie pull, AoE KD, BWs bomb, AM drops puddles so they can't escape easily, SM uses WW to decrease everyone's CD (something Choppas can only do every 2 minutes). A couple KotBS stagger your healers in the meantime. Or SWs use their RKD on them. You can also have a couple WH/WLs attacke the Shamans at this point and since they can't heal a WB while kiting... yeah.

So many possibilities when you build a WB with all 24 available classes and not just around 4.

[footpatrol2]

I'm only talking about a 12 man.

[footpatrol2]

I'm also not saying that the group doesn't have counters. High elves provide the biggest counters.

[Penril]

I'm only talking about a 12 man.

1 Engie
2 BWs
2 Slayers
1 RP
1 AM
2 WPs
2 KotBS
1 SM

Engie pulls a few from your group, then AoE KD with turret. AM drops puddle so they don't escape. Slayers spam Shatter Limbs/ID. BWs bomb. SM spams AoE to debuff their stats by 100+. 1 KotBS charges in to stagger Shamans. The other one is Encouraged Aim/Dirty tricks spec and assists on the pulled enemies. They can do all of this in the first 5 seconds of combat, not having to wait for M3 or 4.