Return of Reckoning

tomato wrote:That's actually right I think, you could use rootbreaker or parry? (not sure which form of avoidance it was) to stop the sw/sh from selfkicking.

Used to pop anti snare on my mdps, in order to avoid selfpunting from SW/sh..

Euan wrote:

Bretin wrote: /snip

Lol, you cannot have all of these.

Euan wrote: Thunderous Blow- no doubt its a great ability. OP? No. Chosen's usually debuff party's wounds in AoE and they don't stack. Requires Spec into savage mastery.

We are comparing WL and Mara - WL doesnt have a wound debuff, and its not interresting if a chosen can debuff wounds.

Euan wrote: Armor Debuff- is mirrored on WL. Requires Spec into savage mastery. Requires savage mutation. Only requires spec on mastery.

Wl has to spec into it too, but yes he dont need the Savage mutation. To be exact both the WL and Mara have to invest the same amount of Mastery points.

Euan wrote: Toughness debuff- Really? Toughness is usually reduced in AoE by Chosen, there's no need to use this ability. Debuffs don't stack.

Again what the chosen can do doesnt is not interresting in a disscussion about WL and Mara.

Euan wrote: Ap drain- requires savage mutation, requires speccing high up in savage tree. 20 second cooldown.

But Mara get it even if you have to spec for it, WL doesnt have this choise.

Euan wrote: Ap Regen- this on like every hero in warhammer and I doubt you ever even specced this because you don't need it. Requires tactic.

If i remember correctly WL doesnt even have a AP tactic.

Euan wrote: Immunity to Armor Penetration- requires monstrosity mutation. Requires Proc off hit. 25% chance to proc off hit. Also gives small heal over time.

Piercing Bite- Only works for attacks that require mutation. Requires tactic.

Self Crit- Requires you to crit in the first place. Also increases your chances to be crit. Lasts 5 seconds. Requires tactic.

Crit increase for group- Requires brutality mutation. Requires Impale. Requires tactic.

Wave of Terror- Requires Brutalilty mutation. Requires high spec into Brutality mastery.

AoE Interrupt- Doesn't scale and it's really not to useful.

Wl doesnt even have something like that.

Euan wrote: Yes he has a better pull than WL. Cry more.

As shown Mara has way more Utility than WL the only thing WL has is pounce.

Also arguments like "Requires xyz mutation" doesnt count because as a Mara you have to stance dance.
Arguments like "a Chosen can do that" doesnt proof a point in a class to class disscussion.

Dude, I'm not even comparing it to WL, just the mirrored abilities. I'm just showing you that you can't have everything and he's making it sound better than what it actually is.

Vigfuss wrote:I think testing this for a week or two shouldn't be a big deal. To me this is a sensible solution for a one off skill that sort of breaks the basic rules of the game, positioning wise. WL was always strong in T3, but dropped off quite a lot in T4.

Testing this change would mean to play sl/sl for a week or two. Neither fun for destru nor for us.
Removing major advantages or fun aspects from a class will result in said class being replaced.

Nanji wrote:

Vigfuss wrote:I think testing this for a week or two shouldn't be a big deal. To me this is a sensible solution for a one off skill that sort of breaks the basic rules of the game, positioning wise. WL was always strong in T3, but dropped off quite a lot in T4.

Testing this change would mean to play sl/sl for a week or two. Neither fun for destru nor for us.
Removing major advantages or fun aspects from a class will result in said class being replaced.

think hes implying that you have to play with the class that got a change. the problem is: everyone with even half a brain knows what change ruins a class so theres no need to test it for 2 weeks.

thullonse wrote:
think hes implying that you have to play with the class that got a change. the problem is: everyone with even half a brain knows what change ruins a class so theres no need to test it for 2 weeks.

Fully aware of that, thanks , just saying that nerfing one class and not nerfing its alternative will result in people switching over to the better class.

Remind me what was the change again... Pounce is no longer usable mid-air if the WL was punted. Anything else?

This wont make the class useless at all. Sure, they will get punted once. But as soon as they land they will pounce back, and now with a 30 sec immunity timer on them.

Penril wrote:Remind me what was the change again... Pounce is no longer usable mid-air if the WL was punted. Anything else?

This wont make the class useless at all. Sure, they will get punted once. But as soon as they land they will pounce back, and now with a 30 sec immunity timer on them.

That and the no longer pounce on keep walls thing; kbing wls is still a wasteful use of a 20s cc ability unless in certian situations where terrain is to your advantage like off cliffs.

I feel that all the reaction posts stating the wl is ruined now feel a bit premature and "knee-jerk"

I said nothing about WL being ruined, just not viable. Which means slayer will be better.
Gotta think about that before nerfing just one class. Otherwise nerf slayer too and you force people to still play their lion while it is worse than before.
Order biased!

you want me to make you look like a retard? k, there we go.

Highest HP Debuff ingame no, and provided by tank, this is not 1V1 game

MRD TB = 100 - VIABLE
CH BW = 75 - VIABLE
SL Devastate = 100 - NOT VIABLE
KOBS AS = 100 - NOT VIABLE
BG = 120 (no mastery scaling therefor < mrd) - NOT VIABLE

Highest Armor Debuff ingame yes, I'll come back on this

where?

Best incoming Heal Debuff ingame best in terms of survavibility, but not strongest, 1 tactic slot

is not affected by wp's group purge therefor and for his heal leech it's the best incoming HD ingame. oh oh tactic slot? that means he can't go for bruteforce. SUCH A WASTE!

Heal Leech (including Overheal, Pots, Damage Heal) will be reduced

still unique and a useful survivability tool on a medium armor class which has the highest defense of any mdps classes.

Toughness Debuff provided by tank

Corruption will still be higher since you mainly spec into savagery.

Toughness and Str Buff same as above and this is not 1V1 game

would force your chosen to run both of those auras the whole time, not sure if that's what you really want

AP Drain 1 tactic slot and 1 mastery point

depending on what you're aiming for, totally worth the point but i know you'd rather go for wrecking ball.

AP Increase provided in a much more efficient way by tank.

choking fury and draining swipe, they both stack and choking fury is affected by WP group purge, DS not. i don't see any advantage just a decent synergy.

Immunity to Armor Penetration please, are you the same guy who mentionned risk vs reward? There is no reward at all in staying in monstro sec, proc from throw axe may help.

please, are you the same guy who cried about a 65 feet skill on a 100 feet range dps class? go get gud! if you need monstro, it's 1 click and throw axe doesn't help since nobody with half a brain would start throwing axes mid combat.

Selfheal same as above

same as above

Damage Modifier which doesn't have any requirements here falls the mirror of vengeance of nagarythe. 1 mastery point and triggers gcd iirc

the mirror is called Primal Fury. go get your infos.

Piercing Bite 1 tactic slot

outstanding point you made, what a waste. should go for warped flash.

Self Crit Tactic 1 tactic slot, we don't know yet about the salfdebuff part.

outstanding point you made, what a waste. should go for riposte.

Crit Damage Tactic w/o requirements 1 tactic slot

outstanding point you made, what a waste. should go for rend tactic.

Crit Increase for Group 1 tactic slot, crit increase for group are vastly better on order side

order biased. outstanding point you made, what a waste. should never consider to have it.

Wave of Terror which is THE best ability in any large scale fight mmmmh, do you mean "wave of HORROR"? Its the same as "submission", and they are the ****.

go get your info's together you *insert flame here* Wave of Terror is a skill.

Highest tooltip damage ingame just no.

might be a bit too hard to understand for you but compared to mdps classes he has the highest tooltip dmg values, go make your homework

AP Tactic 1 tactic slot again.

ffs i'm aware of the tactic slot, your tactic slot point gets boring due to the fact that there is always the possibility to swap tactics!

Core AoE Interrupt Others have it, it's cone shaped and wl can spec to a better one.

WL can spec it, marauder is core. Marauder has a front cone which makes it superior. also it doesn't require to spec into the maybe wrong tree.

Unpurgable Snare "fixed"

get your infos, it can't be fixed. l2english and read what azarael said.

Superior Fetch compared to WL really depends of the situation and pet pathing

yep or on the enemy, if i play against a squig who has your positioning, every fetch works. every half brained player can avoid it buy jumping or kiting the pet.

So basically marauder has an armor debuf and high survavibility thanks to heal leech. Maybe you have 6 tactic slots on your mara but everybody else has to carefully choose between all the "cool stuff" because we can't have everything at once. The "cool stuff" is here to compensate the absence of real burst damage and lack of aoe.

having 4/6 insanely strong tactics all the time and the possibility to swap them should be already enough. having all the stuff i mentioned at the same time would be even more dumb than your posting.

sw<sh

fixed that for you.

Marauder is here to counter that, or at least that I have been told for years when I asked why kotbs/sw/am, etc are allowed to be so OP. So here we are: EA poor attempt at balance.

told by SilverWF, Tesq, Morfee, Euan and some more acknowledged forum legends of warhammer. great source

ps: i'm done here it's pointless to discuss with you guys. so enjoy the following 20 pages of shitstorm unless one of you trolls will complain about something different and you move on to the next topic.