current rvr meta

[Azuzu]

The original poster doesn't even mention attacking. They simply say that no one is leaving their keeps anymore and it's directly related to the pvp changes. My response was that's ridiculous, because roaming rvr is fantastic exp, solo ganking and group play.

of course open rvr yields good amount of rr but the vast majority is just keep camping now because they want the easy rr. even now in game there was a keep siege at STK going on and order had AAO with 100% while destro was just sitting in their keep and farming them with 2-3 WBs (dont know the exact number cause i didnt went on my destro toon to see how much they are). and exactly this is the problem and reason why i created this thread in the first place

also to your discussion a long time ago with Penril about the token gear: it really should be available for silver or gold because thats one thing less that people have to grind with some sort of exploit or xrealming or idk. we already have to have the RR to wear it so double dipping isnt really needed

The reason I bring it up, is because Bloodi was implying I was simply making boastful statements that had nothing to do with a conversation about attacking vs defending.

When in fact your original post is more about roaming and specifically people not leaving their keeps. You go on the say in another post you run with a 6 man and want to see people leave their keeps and roam.

I do agree with you, we need to encourage people to leave the keeps, I also think we need to give better rewards for attacking well defended keeps.

I agree with the other posters that making attacking worth while is a good way to get people to leave their keeps. My point still stands tho, that roaming is great renown. As Bloodi pointed out, which I sort of agree with and I didn't think about before, roaming isn't an option for everyone.

@Penril and I's conversation, Personally I'd love to see it just be for gold/silver, but I think it would be bad for the game. Most players need a carrot on the stick. This game is like most modern MMOs, it's gear driven. Players want phat lootz for their time invested.

[Jaycub]

What would the consequences even be for this game if you went for guild wars 1 and gave everyone the same gear+level+RR abilities in PvP?

I could see ORvR dying and SC's becoming the main focus of the game, and other not so good things. Like Suzu said, this game needs a carrot on a stick, or at least was designed around it.

[bloodi]

I could see ORvR dying and SC's becoming the main focus of the game, and other not so good things. Like Suzu said, this game needs a carrot on a stick, or at least was designed around it.

It was designed with the stick not being very long and the carrot being worth that time.

The current implementation is more like a carrot on a 20ft pole hanging out in outer space.

[Azuzu]

What would the consequences even be for this game if you went for guild wars 1 and gave everyone the same gear+level+RR abilities in PvP?

I could see ORvR dying and SC's becoming the main focus of the game, and other not so good things. Like Suzu said, this game needs a carrot on a stick, or at least was designed around it.

I think games can work without the carrot on the stick, but it needs to be a completely different game and playerbase for that to work.

You need risk vs reward for it to work. Games like UO, Shadowbane games where crafted gear is easy to come by, but you risk loosing it all when you die. Gear is really easy to get, because it's also really easy to lose.

Even in older games like DAoC, you had durability on your gear. People would switch to shitty weapons to beat on keep doors because they didn't want to waste their weapons durability. (Something they changed)

Again, DAoC (pre-toa) gear wasn't extreamly hard to get. You would craft your items and SC them. ToA killed the game for a lot of people, because it shifted the game to be more grinding/gear/pve focused. I


System I could see working (But I don't agree with and would completely change the games landscape):

1: Items are easy to come by, cost only money and do not require an RR rank.

2: Leader-boarders Top renown holders for the week, month, lifetime

3: Renown Ranks only give renown abilites

4: You gain and lose renown when you kill/die.


(Personally, I don't think this would work in a game like Warhammer, but it's the type of system that I think you need if If you take away the carrot and make gear super easy to get. RvR would need to have that thrill factor, the butt clench when your going to die and lose something. )

[Coryphaus]

Making things easier to get makes X-realming more popular. The only reason I only play on one character now is the RR 40 / SC weapon grind, if you made it easy to get I would be playing my destro characters too.

this in of its self points out the utter massive flaw in the system, when the current status and grind of the game essentially forces you to restrict your self to one charcter

that is not ok

[Jaycub]

this in of its self points out the utter massive flaw in the system, when the current status and grind of the game essentially forces you to restrict your self to one charcter

that is not ok

It doesn't necessarily restrict you to one character, but there is a very significant time investment (and powercreep to keep up with) that is required in order to have a "competitive" character.

If we keep the RR 80 cap, you will at least need to be 70 for all your mastery points... and you will need to be in the best SC weapons and the current endgame gear (which may or may not be sov at that time).

[Coryphaus]

this in of its self points out the utter massive flaw in the system, when the current status and grind of the game essentially forces you to restrict your self to one charcter

that is not ok

It doesn't necessarily restrict you to one character, but there is a very significant time investment (and powercreep to keep up with) that is required in order to have a "competitive" character.

If we keep the RR 80 cap, you will at least need to be 70 for all your mastery points... and you will need to be in the best SC weapons and the current endgame gear (which may or may not be sov at that time).

the thing is grinding also (atleast for me personally) takes the fun out of the game, take sc weapons for example i grinded 210 crests to get 2 sc weapons for my choppa, after forcing my self to play scs for so long to get crests now i now hate scs i never want to play mourkain, tor anoc again because for 3-4 weeks thats all i ever played due to the grind

which by the way even though its the price on live were supposed to get crests ever 100 pts

what i trying to say is that this is lvl 26, this is not endgame stop treating this like it is; their shouldnt be such a grind at this stage of the game

[Euan]

@Azuzu

I agree 100%, I'd love to see other players drop currency in oRvR. I'm selfish tho and I like that because it fits well with the playstyle I enjoy.

The thing is, you run into the same issue being debated in this thread. if players drop currency, the best way to farm said players would be defending.

People want attacking to be worth as much as defending. This was an issue people complained about on live as well. The zerg would bitch that the 6 guys with AAO were getting way better renown than they were.

What I'm saying is I haven't noticed a decrease in people attacking keeps in my time zone. The zerg hits the keep hard for both factions all the same. The only difference is people are inside now fighting back and getting good renown for it.

I don't agree that people would be defending. It's better to die trying to get some gear currency than waste your time waiting for the enemy. You'd be getting behind in gear if you're defensive. It would promote more roaming which is not a bad thing at all. In my eyes it would be dumb to wait in keep. I'm sure you saw how many people were ganking s when 400x renown was bugged in elf. Not just Destro but Order was in full force ganking gankers, most fun I've had in RoR so far.

[Jaycub]

Creating the grind at low levels (which will be phased out and already is) is how the devs are keeping players interested in the server for the time being, another personal analogy... I hit RR40 on my WH a long time ago and I maybe logged in for 2 hours total in the past week. I just want T3 to come out.

They need people to be interested and play even in the lower tiers in order to test things.

[Euan]

Creating the grind at low levels (which will be phased out and already is) is how the devs are keeping players interested in the server for the time being, another personal analogy... I hit RR40 on my WH a long time ago and I maybe logged in for 2 hours total in the past week. I just want T3 to come out.

They need people to be interested and play even in the lower tiers in order to test things.

If you logged in 2 hours in a week because you hit rr40 then its the grind you like not so much the game.