Why devs don't care about players // Devaststor wipe

[Genisaurus]

Still haven't given a convincing argument as to why grinding is good for WAR/RoR.

Specially considering this is a group game unlike other mmos where you can dual spec for different roles. Here your success depends heavily on what classes you have in your group. Some nights i see very few healers on my realm. I would like to log on mine to balance things a little, but them i realize i have:

- 5 SC emblems out of 110/220 i need for SC weapons.
- 10-15 RvR emblems out of the many needed for RvR gear

Sure i can still heal and do fine, but i'm sure most see my point by now.

I agree that grinding is not good for RoR, but I also want to clarify that I think people only call it a grind when you're either A.) losing, or B.) bored. It's a grind when you're the faction at 30% population, fighting a zerg but getting no rewards because of a lack of drops. It's a grind when you're the faction with 70% population, playing PvDoor and doing the mental math "(285 medallions / 5 medallions per keep) * 25min per keep..."

On the other hand, nobody calls T1 SC weapons a grind, even though it takes 20 wins (on average ~35 scenarios) to get the gear, which actually runs the risk of leveling you out of T1 before you even get them. I think the solution to the complaints lies not only in coming up with a gear price or medallion drop rate that seems fair, but also in mitigating some of the need for medallions completely.

In Tiers 1-3, the RvR gear is plainly Best-in-Slot gear for almost every class, and while there are alternative PvE sets, almost nobody ever got those. So if we make this gear available for silver upon achieving the minimum rank... why even have gear at all? Why not incorporate the stats given by BIS gear to the base stats granted by leveling? Once we get to T4, alternative sets would provide just enough of a bonus (and even penalties) to change a class' playstyle from the default to an alternative. But before T4, why even have gear at all if the best gear for you is available immediately for an incidental cost? For that matter, why only make the argument for sets? Why not remove influence gear too? And SC weapons? And Relic weapons (remember those?)?

Obviously this isn't necessarily a bad idea, but aside from the practical effort of implementation, it takes away a major avenue of progression. Consider then, that the purpose of gear is not to set you apart from those lower leveled than you or to bring you closer to those higher leveled than you, but to set you apart from those who either play worse than you, or put in less effort than you, at any level. A solution to a gear grind has to respect both of those purposes evenly, I believe.

• - This is why PvE gear drops are mostly whites and greens. It's low effort content. Blue and Purple drops in PVE represent a higher degree of effort put into it, with their lower drop chance. PvE sets from dungeon runs were roughly equal to RvR gear, because (at least when not overgeared), you had to play better to get it.
• - Dropping gear (or currency) from player kills comes mostly from playing better, and to a lesser degree, putting in more effort (read: play time)
• - Dropping gear from keep lords rewards playing better, but only if there's actually a defense.
• - Dropping currency from keep rewards more effort, and helps mitigate the randomness of drops. But only if there are alternative methods of getting the gear
• - Keep chests were supposed to reward effort separately from "play time (read: AFKing keeps)", but those were removed because the algorithm was shitty and Mythic refused to fix it.

Conversely, buying gear with silver removes all reward from playing better, and putting in more effort. I could kill rats and afk keeps, and be just as geared as someone who leads well-coordinated premades or WBs, queues for SCs, and organizes dungeon runs.

Some things to remember when addressing the whole Devastator issue:

1. When T3 is released, the community mostly wants the level range to be 22-31, which removes Devastator from being a T2 concern completely.
2. The drop rate for Soldier's Medallions could be higher in T3 than it was in T2. 10 from keeps, a higher drop chance off players, etc. Frankly, the drop rate should be different, if for no other reason than to account for the cost difference between Obliterator and Devastator
3. While down-converting medallions is an issue (the code to "open" boxes is not there yet, and is not a priority), buying up will be an option at the old rate of 5:1.
4. There is little to no reason why we can't get Obliterator/Devastator gear to drop from keep takes or player kills directly, like it used to.

So I agree that the prices at the current drop rates do constitute a grind, but at the same time, I personally value that feeling of progression and achievement from getting gear that sets me apart from those that don't have it, even my same level. Personally, rather than making it available for money, I would support making T2 - T4 RvR set gear only drop from player kills and keep lords, and having supplemental medallion drops in T2 and T3 (and maybe fortresses).

[Razid1987]

No one is going to stick around to test if there is nothing to work for.

Over half the players would just quit and wait for T4, it would be a terrible thing for the project.

It is an "alpha" but many of the players treat it differently, and it also brings in more people than an actual alpha test ever would.

Then that sounds like their problem, were here to test and provide feedback this is not a full game and they are playinf for the wrong reasons the way it is now, its very alt unfriendly having to flip 55 keeps and playing over close to 200 or more scs for end game items

MMOs have always been time-consuming. What splits the top from the casuals, is basically how much time they commit to the game (With some exceptions, of course). Complaining about that you have to grind in an MMO is really, really mind buckling. Yes! You have to grind! It's an MMO!

Yes, we are testers, but implementing gear being bought from gold is in itself a test. Either players will generally like it, or they won't. If they generally don't, the best thing is of course to remove that feature again. I can only say that I'm personally against it. If you want RvR gear, you should do RvR, not farm gold. It's that simple.

[Luuca]

I really feel ashamed about the way most of you talk about the devs. I don't know personally any of em but still I respect the time they are giving to the community and for what? To be treated like this.
First we whined about the pve grinding and they did change it by making good gear drop from players rather than mobs. Now they decided to whipe all the medallions and 99% of destros are acting like lil spoiled kids. It's been only ONE day since the new patch and you are all acting like it's end game.Test the game, express your opinion in a CONSTRUCTIVE WAY and try to be as objective as possible.
PS. I'm all about grinding, don't make gear easily accessible to all.

+OVER 9000 ↑↑↑↑

[Razid1987]

"(285 medallions / 5 medallions per keep) * 2min per keep..."

Fixed

[dkabib]

If you want RvR gear, you should do RvR, not farm gold. It's that simple.

You still need RR to equip the gear.
Who said anything about farming gold? It was supposed to be like 20 silver.

[Penril]

So I agree that the prices at the current drop rates do constitute a grind, but at the same time, I personally value that feeling of progression and achievement from getting gear that sets me apart from those that don't have it, even my same level. Personally, rather than making it available for money, I would support making T2 - T4 RvR set gear only drop from player kills and keep lords, and having supplemental medallion drops in T2 and T3 (and maybe fortresses).

Once we have T4, then i won't mind "grinding" for days (weeks) to get my Sovereing sets. But the way things are being implemented in RoR, one tier at a time, having new level caps every couple weeks, in the end we are grinding x3-4 times as much as on live.

I don't see a valid reason to grind for T1 SC weapons (before level caps were raised), THEN grind T2 SC weapons again, THEN grind T3 SC weapons again, THEN grind medallions for Devastator, THEN we will grind again for Anihilator/Conqueror/Invader/Sovereing.

Make us grind for 10000 medallions for Sovereing. But sell lower level gear for gold.

[Razid1987]

If you want RvR gear, you should do RvR, not farm gold. It's that simple.

You still need RR to equip the gear.
Who said anything about farming gold? It was supposed to be like 20 silver.

Getting to RR 30 or whatever isn't hard. Getting 300 Soldier Medallions is. It should stay that way. I don't want to be fully geared after one or two days. Then forget about the gold farming. Then people can just get it without lifting a finger. How is that better?

[Genisaurus]

So I agree that the prices at the current drop rates do constitute a grind, but at the same time, I personally value that feeling of progression and achievement from getting gear that sets me apart from those that don't have it, even my same level. Personally, rather than making it available for money, I would support making T2 - T4 RvR set gear only drop from player kills and keep lords, and having supplemental medallion drops in T2 and T3 (and maybe fortresses).

Once we have T4, then i won't mind "grinding" for days (weeks) to get my Sovereing sets. But the way things are being implemented in RoR, one tier at a time, having new level caps every couple weeks, in the end we are grinding x3-4 times as much as on live.

I don't see a valid reason to grind for T1 SC weapons (before level caps were raised), THEN grind T2 SC weapons again, THEN grind T3 SC weapons again, THEN grind medallions for Devastator, THEN we will grind again for Anihilator/Conqueror/Invader/Sovereing.

Make us grind for 10000 medallions for Sovereing. But sell lower level gear for gold.

So you don't think a middle ground could be found, by maybe having a universal PVP currency, either as a primary acquisition method, or secondary to drops off player kills/keep lords?

EDIT: Additionally, while I understand the nature of development and releases on RoR creates some pacing problems, I don't know if we should look for a permanent fix for a temporary problem.

[Razid1987]

So I agree that the prices at the current drop rates do constitute a grind, but at the same time, I personally value that feeling of progression and achievement from getting gear that sets me apart from those that don't have it, even my same level. Personally, rather than making it available for money, I would support making T2 - T4 RvR set gear only drop from player kills and keep lords, and having supplemental medallion drops in T2 and T3 (and maybe fortresses).

Once we have T4, then i won't mind "grinding" for days (weeks) to get my Sovereing sets. But the way things are being implemented in RoR, one tier at a time, having new level caps every couple weeks, in the end we are grinding x3-4 times as much as on live.

I don't see a valid reason to grind for T1 SC weapons (before level caps were raised), THEN grind T2 SC weapons again, THEN grind T3 SC weapons again, THEN grind medallions for Devastator, THEN we will grind again for Anihilator/Conqueror/Invader/Sovereing.

Make us grind for 10000 medallions for Sovereing. But sell lower level gear for gold.

Why not? What else are you going to do? Do you have something you have to do before a certain time or something? You have WEEKS to get the full set, and you get it by just playing the game as you would normally. What's the problem?

[dkabib]

So I agree that the prices at the current drop rates do constitute a grind, but at the same time, I personally value that feeling of progression and achievement from getting gear that sets me apart from those that don't have it, even my same level. Personally, rather than making it available for money, I would support making T2 - T4 RvR set gear only drop from player kills and keep lords, and having supplemental medallion drops in T2 and T3 (and maybe fortresses).

Once we have T4, then i won't mind "grinding" for days (weeks) to get my Sovereing sets. But the way things are being implemented in RoR, one tier at a time, having new level caps every couple weeks, in the end we are grinding x3-4 times as much as on live.

I don't see a valid reason to grind for T1 SC weapons (before level caps were raised), THEN grind T2 SC weapons again, THEN grind T3 SC weapons again, THEN grind medallions for Devastator, THEN we will grind again for Anihilator/Conqueror/Invader/Sovereing.

Make us grind for 10000 medallions for Sovereing. But sell lower level gear for gold.

So you don't think a middle ground could be found, by maybe having a universal PVP currency, either as a primary acquisition method, or secondary to drops off player kills/keep lords?

I do support the idea of a universal PVP currency, for Sets and Weapons.
Get it at SCs, Keeps, but mostly from fighting! We need to make players want to go out there and fight, no matter the odds, fighting should always be rewarded.