Return of Reckoning

Avernus wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 6:42 pm

Magusar wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 5:32 pm Guerrilla Training.
Invaluable tactic, for skirmish SW especially. But Skirmish not for Vanq . Here i would agree with u.

Its not just invaluable, your kite is non-existent without this thing. Too bad, you must spend a tactic slot for this.

Using this it on my sSw, feels just great. Some ranked's rSWs used it too. But your preference ofc.

Avernus wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:27 pm

lemao wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:00 pm

But since you are relying on burst that much, maybe a more damage is an option too? Btw if you are hating tanks that much, BW with Close Quarters+Focused Mind can do an insane amount damage to anything in melee range. (You can imitate this though if you have SM in your group, and without going into melee range).

No, just not.

Avernus wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 5:23 pm

nocturnalguest wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 1:14 pm
1. The most efficient and toxic for regular SCs&roaming i believe would be kotbs/ib snb (ideally with 8 main sov piece) + rSW+BW/DPS AM/engi (pick any 2 of those, possible to even x2 excluding engi but considering SW) + AM/WP + RP.
If you wanna fight them in 6v6 then go with the unforgettable classics of kotbs + sm + asw + wl + rp + am. works like a swiss clock.
1-3-2 ranged you can play either skirmish or fester, need to build up synergies within your group depending on other DPSs. 2-2-2 you go melee yourself and wreck them.

CyunUnderis wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:07 pm - Knight/IB or SM/WL/aSW/RP/AM or WP (can be S/B)
- Knight/WL/BW/SW/RP/AM or WP (Book)
- Knight/BW or SW or Eng/BW/SW/RP/AM or WP (S/B perma-guarded or Book)

Vanquisher is enough for all this classes

2. And this i second as well.

3. So you go with like kinda anything of order classes. aSW+WH i believe is your very least priority for 2-2-2 tho, but it will still work decently if played well, just not as good as other options.

Good luck!

1. Assist party eh? Nothing new here, sometimes it does work...if you have 2 party to to hold the line. If you are not - your elements just gonna be picked one by one, there is no order rdps who can kite like SH, the moment you are getting serious focus - you are probably dead. And i'm not even talking about sc like ekrund where can lose by default.

2. Can't say i agree with vanq being enough to do something. Definetly not for aSW.

3. Yeah, the best option is a ...well, slayer...(for aSW).

No, i'm not saying that this thing is impossible, but for a few months of playing i've NEVER seen a premade with SW who did good against destro melee groups.

1. Its not an assist party but kite&nuke. Well, new or not the thing is working but played a bit differently than most used to, and i'd not say "sometimes" as it always works (assuming random SCs and orvr roaming), however tho as Ive mentioned SCs and oRvR, i need to explain myself here a bit in regards to your claim about 2 parties. Yes, in SCs you may struggle to win objective, however such group is played to win by kills and you need to accept you may lose by points cause you wont be able to hard push, but you actually dont need to aim with such composition to win by objectives, hard push etc. Your aim should be to go for nukes. And 1-3-2 does it brilliant and rSW shines here a lot. As many told you its all about prekiting and positioning, if done well rSW fits composition perfectly. Issue you mention of being picked one by one is actually what your group should be doing and for 1-3-2 any target out of position is legit, with proper preparation and nice punt everything dies but main sov full def snb tank. Kite is not much about a class, but like 99,99% about a player man, exaggeration of course, but as an example there are alot of solo roam videos with perfect e.g. engi kiting (while forums consider such class as stationary). Yes SH has alot of tools that make it much easier and leaves more room for player mistake, however kiting capacities are up on player, not class. Also here comes the main source of what i consider as your missunderstanding - you CANT get serious focus. if you did got serious focus it just means that you made critical mistakes with your prekiting and positioning. Is all. It means you did fk up beforehand and got out caught along with your team members that also failed to prevent that. Even if while orvr roaming got rekt from 3-4 directions it just means you choose a wrong path to go to. About what you can do under focus to not get caught people already mentioned here. Also Ekrund is not a loss by default by such group, it has plenty of space to use terrain, kite&punt. In orvr roaming such 1-3-2 compositions are insanely fun and working just brilliant, highly advice to either grab your friends to try it out (need experienced MA/leader/shotcaller, ideally who also like roaming) or just try to form such group yourself and see how it goes. In SCs they may not shine so well, but attitude for SCs should be different.

2. Of course you wont be shining in vanq as SW/aSW. Vanq is mentioned as one of the very starter moments you may try out such composition is all. Of course you wont be stomping warband in vanq 6men etc. Im pretty sure we all understand what was meant. So lets stop about that.

3. I dont know, its either lack of my experience with SW or im missing something, but i never saw slayer as a fitting DPS for aSW or even slayer+WH/WL. I dont believe it synergies well, the slayer+burst class. in recent 6v6 events there are a ton of matches like this, but they are mostly done to handicap order comp (and due to missing slayers) in case destro is not perfect we+choppa with snb dok. slayer shines great paired with other slayer. bursty classes WH/WL/aSW better go with each other and such comps are played slightly different than slayer+slayer comp. Rule of thumb is to either run ultra high pressure of slayer+slayer and relay on CC to land a kill or to play around burst windows of WH/WL/aSW. I may miss something here, but i highly doubt someone truly elite would stop and drop a post on forums to correct me here.

I dont know what game modes you actually play, but just a very recent example is here https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... a34e157235
Meta destro group is killed with gud ol' sm-asw-wl trio. Such order comp was really popular back in 2019-2020.

Rapzel wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:37 pm

Avernus wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:27 pm 1. 10%, not 10. And, destro, i suppose, are attacking your tank but your dps? Burst you say? But BW burst is stronger than SW and as you already said

What is 100 * 1,1?



just to add to spice it up a bit.

lemao wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:00 pm No, you are not if you have hands. RSH are in 65 ft range all the time aswell. You only need to get closer for your hd, but even your hd is not even needed all the time when all the burst comes into the target in 1 global. You have also + 10 range on EVERY other range ability, even 110 ft on your most important ability Festering Arrow.

My answer was for this. Words are marked just for you, read the text BEFORE you post something like this pls.

nocturnalguest wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:50 pm 1. Its not an assist party but kite&nuke. Well, new or not the thing is working but played a bit differently than most used to, and i'd not say "sometimes" as it always works (assuming random SCs and orvr roaming), however tho as Ive mentioned SCs and oRvR, i need to explain myself here a bit in regards to your claim about 2 parties. Yes, in SCs you may struggle to win objective, however such group is played to win by kills and you need to accept you may lose by points cause you wont be able to hard push, but you actually dont need to aim with such composition to win by objectives, hard push etc. Your aim should be to go for nukes. And 1-3-2 does it brilliant and rSW shines here a lot. As many told you its all about prekiting and positioning, if done well rSW fits composition perfectly. Issue you mention of being picked one by one is actually what your group should be doing and for 1-3-2 any target out of position is legit, with proper preparation and nice punt everything dies but main sov full def snb tank. Kite is not much about a class, but like 99,99% about a player man, exaggeration of course, but as an example there are alot of solo roam videos with perfect e.g. engi kiting (while forums consider such class as stationary). Yes SH has alot of tools that make it much easier and leaves more room for player mistake, however kiting capacities are up on player, not class. Also here comes the main source of what i consider as your missunderstanding - you CANT get serious focus. if you did got serious focus it just means that you made critical mistakes with your prekiting and positioning. Is all. It means you did fk up beforehand and got out caught along with your team members that also failed to prevent that. Even if while orvr roaming got rekt from 3-4 directions it just means you choose a wrong path to go to. About what you can do under focus to not get caught people already mentioned here. Also Ekrund is not a loss by default by such group, it has plenty of space to use terrain, kite&punt. In orvr roaming such 1-3-2 compositions are insanely fun and working just brilliant, highly advice to either grab your friends to try it out (need experienced MA/leader/shotcaller, ideally who also like roaming) or just try to form such group yourself and see how it goes. In SCs they may not shine so well, but attitude for SCs should be different.

2. Of course you wont be shining in vanq as SW/aSW. Vanq is mentioned as one of the very starter moments you may try out such composition is all. Of course you wont be stomping warband in vanq 6men etc. Im pretty sure we all understand what was meant. So lets stop about that.

3. I dont know, its either lack of my experience with SW or im missing something, but i never saw slayer as a fitting DPS for aSW or even slayer+WH/WL. I dont believe it synergies well, the slayer+burst class. in recent 6v6 events there are a ton of matches like this, but they are mostly done to handicap order comp (and due to missing slayers) in case destro is not perfect we+choppa with snb dok. slayer shines great paired with other slayer. bursty classes WH/WL/aSW better go with each other and such comps are played slightly different than slayer+slayer comp. Rule of thumb is to either run ultra high pressure of slayer+slayer and relay on CC to land a kill or to play around burst windows of WH/WL/aSW. I may miss something here, but i highly doubt someone truly elite would stop and drop a post on forums to correct me here.

I dont know what game modes you actually play, but just a very recent example is here https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... a34e157235
Meta destro group is killed with gud ol' sm-asw-wl trio. Such order comp was really popular back in 2019-2020.

1. Well, we called parties like that assist parties on our live server but it its obvious that different servers can name this differently. Sorry about that one.
Just in case, i'm talking not about roaming, but about a specific situation where a group like that meets good premade or two on the event sc. Usually a group like that ends up being pushed to resp (often losing pug group in the process). And then, depending from sc, they kite around, killing enemy pug members in the process (if they have a pug group) or die if there is no way to run.

I'm actually don't think that group like that is bad or ineffective - but this tactic's effectiveness is questionable for an average /5 group. And, since we are still talking about event sc and the usual "make a group" advice - fresh /5 group still most likely to fail, unless this people already played together a lot (it's possible though, it's not like we have a lot of players here).

About critical errors - yes, i agree with you that you should not be in this position in the first place. My point is that for a skilled destro each time you try to use your healing debuff it's a possible opening for them.

About solo roam video - you know that they (usually) aren't showing the moments when they die miserably?

2. Yes it's true. Did i ever said it's not?

3. I agree. Still, aSW must be geared very well, and as average "just playing event sc to complete event quests, not even sov gear yet" guy it's usually not an option.

lemao wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 5:47 pm
You can still reposition yourself with a rsw tho ?! It´s all about prekiting.

ooooo, fancy word. here you go dear sw brothers. you're just not prekiting. you fools

rejndjer wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:29 am

lemao wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 5:47 pm
You can still reposition yourself with a rsw tho ?! It´s all about prekiting.

ooooo, fancy word. here you go dear sw brothers. you're just not prekiting. you fools

Tbh, this is exactly what most rdps in SC fail at. They stand still to shoot, while enemy melee are approaching.

Avernus wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 4:27 am 1. Well, we called parties like that assist parties on our live server but it its obvious that different servers can name this differently. Sorry about that one.
Just in case, i'm talking not about roaming, but about a specific situation where a group like that meets good premade or two on the event sc. Usually a group like that ends up being pushed to resp (often losing pug group in the process). And then, depending from sc, they kite around, killing enemy pug members in the process (if they have a pug group) or die if there is no way to run.

I'm actually don't think that group like that is bad or ineffective - but this tactic's effectiveness is questionable for an average /5 group. And, since we are still talking about event sc and the usual "make a group" advice - fresh /5 group still most likely to fail, unless this people already played together a lot (it's possible though, it's not like we have a lot of players here).

About critical errors - yes, i agree with you that you should not be in this position in the first place. My point is that for a skilled destro each time you try to use your healing debuff it's a possible opening for them.

About solo roam video - you know that they (usually) aren't showing the moments when they die miserably?

2. Yes it's true. Did i ever said it's not?

3. I agree. Still, aSW must be geared very well, and as average "just playing event sc to complete event quests, not even sov gear yet" guy it's usually not an option.

Yes, definitely. Like someone once told me while discussing 1-3-2 efficiency that its an uphill battle, it requires exceptional skills from group members to shine, much easier to build coordination within 2-2-2. I do agree that ragtag /5 may actually fail hard, but if we account players skills for such comp it just becomes the other topic to discuss. You started this by "how about SW folks" which is fair and fine point, but if we dont talk about other crucial matters (like if team is experienced or not, how skilled players are) then SW as a class (and even both as rSW or aSW) has an absolutely legit spot in efficient meta groups is what we told you. I guess here we all can agree.

In regards to solo roam - of course, i understand that its their most bright moments, but why should they do a documentary video? Thats painful and boring to watch, none would be interested in either making such videos or watching. Like imagine being steamrolled by 6+ ppl for an hour or two while camping some cliffs. My eyes would bleed. And what i mean is, its more important that its technically possible then how it looks in reality for average ror player. It not on game mechanics itself, but on players.

"aSW must be geared very well", of course, like any other DPS both sides in this game. Its plain obvious that DPS need gear as close to BiS as possible and before that moment they are a burden to the team. More classes have it easier, some not. aSW definitely not, it needs to be BiS but i believe starting from invader/bloodlord one can try it out. As for event SC, look, i once was playing with my friends late EU on sunday and we ran 1-4-1 group (only 1 char at a time in this absolute trash ragtag group was BiS or close to) in Thunder Valley order side, there were no destro premades at all for whole run (~2 hours) and we didnt lose a single one out of like 20+ games. So i'd say - it depends. We started like such trash group and beforehand talk thru that we swap for proper comp if we encounter any serious enemy, but we didnt.
And also its never a bad option to group up even for a "playing event sc to complete event quests" not yet sov guy. Even in vanq it would be better to form something like rSW+BW with whatever heals and tanks or even melee+rDPS group or even lesser than 6 than to try solo leech the thing with horrible pain and suffering.

Sulorie wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:07 am

rejndjer wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:29 am

lemao wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 5:47 pm
You can still reposition yourself with a rsw tho ?! It´s all about prekiting.

ooooo, fancy word. here you go dear sw brothers. you're just not prekiting. you fools

Tbh, this is exactly what most rdps in SC fail at. They stand still to shoot, while enemy melee are approaching.

you have to stand still to shoot those 3k festerboms.

but what most "rdps in SC" really fail at is having BIS gear with which they could in theory do 3k fester crit on a target that has lowest-possible thoughness and is unguarded. sounds super easy. can you tell me name of your SW so i can see your stats, you seem to know very much about the class.

nocturnalguest wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:14 am 1.Yes, definitely. Like someone once told me while discussing 1-3-2 efficiency that its an uphill battle, it requires exceptional skills from group members to shine, much easier to build coordination within 2-2-2. I do agree that ragtag /5 may actually fail hard, but if we account players skills for such comp it just becomes the other topic to discuss. You started this by "how about SW folks" which is fair and fine point, but if we dont talk about other crucial matters (like if team is experienced or not, how skilled players are) then SW as a class (and even both as rSW or aSW) has an absolutely legit spot in efficient meta groups is what we told you. I guess here we all can agree.

2.In regards to solo roam - of course, i understand that its their most bright moments, but why should they do a documentary video? Thats painful and boring to watch, none would be interested in either making such videos or watching. Like imagine being steamrolled by 6+ ppl for an hour or two while camping some cliffs. My eyes would bleed. And what i mean is, its more important that its technically possible then how it looks in reality for average ror player. It not on game mechanics itself, but on players.

3."aSW must be geared very well", of course, like any other DPS both sides in this game. Its plain obvious that DPS need gear as close to BiS as possible and before that moment they are a burden to the team. More classes have it easier, some not. aSW definitely not, it needs to be BiS but i believe starting from invader/bloodlord one can try it out. As for event SC, look, i once was playing with my friends late EU on sunday and we ran 1-4-1 group (only 1 char at a time in this absolute trash ragtag group was BiS or close to) in Thunder Valley order side, there were no destro premades at all for whole run (~2 hours) and we didnt lose a single one out of like 20+ games. So i'd say - it depends. We started like such trash group and beforehand talk thru that we swap for proper comp if we encounter any serious enemy, but we didnt.

4. And also its never a bad option to group up even for a "playing event sc to complete event quests" not yet sov guy. Even in vanq it would be better to form something like rSW+BW with whatever heals and tanks or even melee+rDPS group or even lesser than 6 than to try solo leech the thing with horrible pain and suffering.

1. Yes, i agree.

2. True. Still, the part i was talking about are failed 1v1, not the waiting/running from steamroll/etc. but it doesn't matter that much.

3. True. I'm not sure that you should spend your crests to buy invader instead of saving them for sovereign, but, since i didn't buy it i can't say for sure. My SW was kinda 40 3X when i returned, no crests+garbage gear from t3 (when i played RoR for the first time few years ago, t3 still existed). Thats why i almost copletely skipped all pvp sets till sovereign.
Yes, if you are playing late EU you can meet exceptinally delicious enemy. Like 82RR SH, when you pull him as WL, don't even try to run away or detaunt (2-3 seconds and he is dead, solokill...if you can call a situation like this "kill").

4. True.