Choppa Pull, fix or delete it?

[Earthcake]

Not for free. It requires a tactic. To block on a tank that has zero ways to increase blocking via career spec/abilities. And its a 5 second duration for an extra 25% parry rate. You are hard cherry picking here without bringing up all the ways other tanks have built in ways to reduce damage. Knight gets a free armor buff that goes way above armor pots, and with a tactic can increase parry by 15% on top of their free 10% block increase ability. High parry rate does zero toward mitigating ranged damage, so increasing block is superior to parry, no? Or the fact that they can buff healing received on their group. Or that they can take half damage from ALL sources. How does destro hard counter all that with one ability like Order does? oh wait...

No I'm not, destro tanks would be invincible without rampage.
And there is a reason why destro only whines about slayers : others order dps just plain suck and are not a threat.

kotbs half damage is for 10sec it's not up all the time or whenever you want like chosen or BO defenses...

And about the +healing that is always brought up here, order NEEDS more damage and more healing since they play less than destro.
Destro got far better CC so order players play less than destro, and you don't want them to output more when they can actually play ?

I don't know if the % are right tho, maybe they are overtuned, but order NEEDS more dmg/healing than destro to be competitive.
Be it 2% or 20% or whatever value, i don't know.

Btw, I'm not saying remove gtdc, it's a CC so it's part of destro strenghts, if it gets removed, then maybe order doesn't need more output anymore.
just saying destro tanks ARE stronger, cause well, they are.

[Everdin]

Spoiler:

wanna compare tanks?
kobs easily best grp buff tank in game
ib parry and crit buffs make slayer even harder to contain

and guess what one of da most OP stuff in game: WoDS

Can't Hit Me! - Block WoDS with more damage

[Butzinjo]

The problem in this thread is, that we are all discussing from our point off view. And so we come with a bug to a "ballance discussion" wich only exists because this ability pulls people throught walls what generally is a bug and it ***** up ur cameraview (thats an argument). Would we talk about this ability if it worked proberly? That ability that has it best use in catching people running away or giving "free imunity"?

So "rampage" is not op because destro generally has enought/ "better" tanks, on the other side if destro has "rampage" it would be op because order is massively lacking of tanks, hmmm? Or did i understand that wrong?

At the end of the Day, we are all biased whether we play just one side or both sides...

[wachlarz]

Spoiler:

wanna compare tanks?
kobs easily best grp buff tank in game
ib parry and crit buffs make slayer even harder to contain

and guess what one of da most OP stuff in game: WoDS

Can't Hit Me! - Block WoDS with more damage

Most op tac. was shammy Run Away

[Farrul]

Don't see any "solid" points yet. The first one is simply a bug. It has been stated several times in this thread by several people, that pulling through walls is a bug and should be fixed. No one argues about that.

The reason i created this thread is because of the frequency of this occurring, obviously due to how many choppas there are spamming the ability. You can downplay the issue as it suits you but the fact of the matter is that this ''simply a bug'' is not getting a well deserved fix ''nerf'' ( hence suggesting it should be deleted/replaced if it can never be fixed).

Regarding the 3rd point I was a bit confused. Granted I haven't been pulled a lot, but by how you describe it, I figured it would be burned in my memory the few times it happened, so I tried to find some evidence for you. Is "It completely messes up the angle of the camera, e.g it will point towards the sky/ground or be zoomed in creating a lot of confusion, this alone kills." referring to this?

Dont have any UI issues elsewhere and the Mara pull has never caused this(neither the Magus one) and i've seen other players complain about the same thing(in-game and on this forum). In fact this particular Pull has caused many weird occurrences which i did not mention here(such as falling into the ''void'').

The thing is that you need to play sufficently Order to notice it, these bugs won't manifest all the time but once they do it's detrimental (camera can easily result in death, i've died 100s of times due to it during my 1.5 years playing on this server, again always due to a Choppa performing that Pull)

Not sure what the 2nd point should prove in regard to choppa pull being op. You just assume that being pulled directly to the choppa is a death sentence in itself and act like it proves itself. Btw the video shows that this isn't even 100% correct. When mdpv gets pulled on short distance he even lands a bit behind the choppa. It looks like you're being pulled to the position where the choppa where, when the pull affected you. Are you sure mara and wl-pull work any different?

I don't wish to explain the same thing again with different words so i'll quote myself as to why this ability is imbalanced: (and yes 100% certain mara/wl positions you infront of them with a chance of escape, playing a WL to rr 84 )

'' The only balance nerf is in point (2) which indeed is broken, pulls are already annoying do deal with but at least other pulls give you a chance to respond(mara/wl) as they position the target in front of them, not right at their feets(choppa)which is imbalanced because of body collision(getting stuck). ''

It's in effect a death sentence if you get stuck in a blob due to it(i've experienced it from the point of view of multiple toons and different roles/perspectives, i.e deftard SnB IB tank just disappearing in the blob with no heals in the world able to save him)

[Tanski]

PSA if you can damage a choppa thru said wall/floor they can pull you…

Choppa pull is literally only good in funnels or running people down, otherwise just a great way to give tanks free immunities and just be annoying to both sides

[lumpi33]

Funny how destro players in here are trying to downplay the GTDC by saying stuff like it gives free immunity and stuff.

How good is free immunity when you are getting pulled into their blob with screwed up camera, can't move and die afterwards? In keeps or forts it's game over when you are getting pulled through floor and can't be rezzed. It happens all the time.

There are tons of people rolling choppas. There is a reason for that and GTDC is one of it. It is strong aoe, utility and gives easy kills. Saying that you can avoid it by staying ranged is ridiculous. You can't. Choppas can move much faster towards you than you can move away from them, due to the increased movement speed while channeling GTDC. Add some lag to it and it's feeled ~60ft you are getting pulled. They only have to move a little towards you and can pull you from far back.

Have multipe choppas all channelling and you just see tons of people flying into the destro melee blob spamming aoe without target, which means you are getting instantly hit after a pull and you gonna have the focus of their backlines on you afterwards.

Suck people in and watch them die. How good is that? It's so good that they nerfed magus/engi pulls hard, yet choppas can keep abusing it, instant with good aoe damage and movement speed on top, in their primary cookie cutter spec.

[Dabbart]

GTDC has been broken since 2018. Search the bug tracker guys, there's a "fresh" post from May 2022 already.

https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/11874
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/20139

I doubt fixing it is realistically on the cards. Without being pedantic or lazy ability swap, what would you replace it with? Go type out a proposal if you have an idea.

I love the 2022 creations date accounts being longtime players though... hell, Lumpi33's acct seems to be created just to post about GTDC... This whole forum is infested atm...

Stop feeding trolls guys.

[Amakusa]

Make GtdC undefendable and remove the Pull

[Sulorie]

How good is free immunity when you are getting pulled into their blob with screwed up camera, can't move and die afterwards?

When you pull enemy melees and their tanks, who are not running away from you, you actually give them free immunity.
Only people without group support/guard are bothered by this pull, especially if they don't want to get into melee range in the first place.