Return of Reckoning

Well if its been made that rubbish we will see zealots running the other rituals then. I dont think so.

Sulorie wrote: Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:35 pm

kweedko wrote: Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:17 pm

Sulorie wrote: Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:15 pm
For DD zealots nothing changed. 1 proc per half second is appropriate. This sounds like a l2p issue.

Tell me, 1 proc in sec or 2-3 - sure nothing changed.

You don't require 100-150 ap per gcd on any class. Try with a better argument.

sure per gcd, whole the time, every day 24/7

Telen wrote: Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:43 pm Well if its been made that rubbish we will see zealots running the other rituals then. I dont think so.

Surprisingly plenty zealots run other rituals, but I would book that under newbie mistakes.

dansari wrote: Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:24 pm Lol @ zealots in this thread. "Where did my endless AP go? What is an AP pot? You mean my melee trains have to use AP pots now too? Wtf is this? What is Restorative Burst?"

You're conflating different specs now. DD zealots have no use for RB.
The ritual didn't affect Zealot in healing build unless the Zealot used a AoE dps skill which you did (in melee range) to regain AP sometimes. So it's a straight nerf for not only Zealots but also for every dps and tank class on destro. Sure it was busted AF, but once again a ICD sollution on a skill that completly ruins existing synnergies. Why not reduce AP gained to 25 instead and keep the synnergies with the skills. Why not reduce proc damage on Flames of Ruin/Frozen Touch, Covenants/Prayers so the synnergy remains.

Then you also got to ask youself as a dev, do you actually want a zero tollerance prinicple for overpowered tools?
I'd say no. Gamebreaking and overpeforming isn't the same thing. Sometimes you need overpeforming tools to make the game intreasting. EVERY class should have a OP tool so they get included. The game is rather increadibly focus on OP classes rather then OP tools imo. Few classes have to many OP tools and some classes have none.

Could you explain why 0.5 sec ICD is "weaksauce" but 0 ICD was balanced-and-must-have?
Because if you are AoEing or have AoE dots over the place that can still trigger the AP gain, is it that much weaker now? Wouldn't you have been previously able to get AP gain at same second from mainhand attack, offhand attack, dmg ability hit and DoT hit?
I know there is random chance involved, but is that much of a drop in AP feed?
Or assuming I understand text of ability correctly, it would just fire on "attack", meaning ability launch - or AA included - but not DoT ticks?

roadkillrobin wrote:...

Because if you reduce the AP gained to 25 you still have melee AoE classes returning more AP than they spend with an AoE for hitting a certain number of targets. That will not stand. There will not be a skill on one realm, that has no equivalent on the opposite realm, that grants infinite AP to MDPS.

Your comments regarding deliberately making certain features of a class overperform are so mindblowing that I can't marshall a response, so I'll just say that we won't ever subscribe to that philosophy. By all means, make classes that have specs defined around a certain role. But advocating making single abilities de facto overpowered?

I will be mirroring it to RP's in the next patch.

Azarael wrote: Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:05 pm I will be mirroring it to RP's in the next patch.

Plz no.
Or make it proc with internal CD and return 25 for melee and 50 for casts. Then I'd be a happy kitty.

Will Hastened Expurgation/Shadow Runner eventually swap hotbars like regular stealth?

roadkillrobin wrote: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:58 pm Then you also got to ask youself as a dev, do you actually want a zero tollerance prinicple for overpowered tools?
I'd say no. Gamebreaking and overpeforming isn't the same thing. Sometimes you need overpeforming tools to make the game intreasting. EVERY class should have a OP tool so they get included. The game is rather increadibly focus on OP classes rather then OP tools imo. Few classes have to many OP tools and some classes have none.

I'd argue that overpowered and overperforming tools should be gated by the requirement to group up and coordinate ~ only come in form of bilateral synergies.

Imo, the issue lies within the definition of 'synergy':
1) A+B = ('OP') C { dumbfire synergy that just requires a spot in the group (e.g.: KotBS/CH auras, yadayada)
2) A+B = ('OP') C, if A does x and B does y { conditional synergy that requires communication, consideration, additional inputs and drawbacks (e.g.: IB/BG Oathfriend/Dark Protector buffsystem, Zealot M1, yadayada)

If something edges towards overperformance it shouldn't be pruned or distorted, simply adding a new conditional layer is enough to dial back its stock potencies.
In case of the ritual one could change it so that if allies are subject to buff 'x', 'y' or 'z' AP is being granted at prepatch rates ~ or the ritual as such changes functionality and grants various things based on what buffs the zealot does or doesn't maintain (could open up other rituals for reworks, e.g.: every ritual gets a set of buffs that are dynamically applied, matching the needs of various encounters/formats), maybe even incorporate drawbacks that can be exploited to justify prepatch AP rate.
E.g.: 'For the duration of the ritual all allies within its range have a chance to receive <'#'> AP upon striking an enemy; AP granted scales with the number of zealot buffs on the ally [x buffs = 100% AP gain, 0 buffs = 0% AP gain, or as a drawback: if ritual procs while ally isn't affected by any zealot buffs, all enemies within 30ft range gain <'#'> AP].

I personally am not a fan of pruning by arbitary means such as ICDs - complexity, regardless of how daunting or convoluted it might appear to new and old players alike, helps greatly to maintain iconic and beloved mechanics, while scaling (back) their potency through player 'skill'.

My 2cents.

Abbd.:
Relocating more base functionality of synergies to GIABS should be considered before introducing ICDs and alike, it'd prompt more player engagement with said synergies and allow for players to distinguish themselves by their ability to faciliate synergies.
Rituals and auras taken as example: regardless how good/bad a player performs, it'll always net the same results - adding complexity maintains base functionality but increases skill ceiling.

Azarael wrote: Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:05 pm

I will be mirroring it to RP's in the next patch.

Don't mirror too much please in order to fix balance issues or classes will feel too similar.