Disrupt vs magical class, nerf/boost classes or rework disrupt in general?

[footpatrol2]

@catholicism
Which will increase the power level of physical rdps likely to the power level that it should be.

[ToXoS]

Instead of buffing magical RDPS, add a -15% disrupt debuff to the tactic Pierce Defenses (that all physical RDPS have and use atm).
Adding this disrupt debuff to physical RDPS will not buffing them (because they're not using magic), but will add more synergy and solve the issue.

[catholicism198]

@catholicism
Which will increase the power level of physical rdps likely to the power level that it should be.

This thread is not about buffing physical rdps- it's about fixing the insane disrupt rates.

[Darosh]

An unlikely approach:

Spoiler:

Set an average, acceptable (prebuff) level of avoidance* and (re)distribute* or cap it, based on the amount of people in a group/warband (e.g.: 1-5(6%),6(8.5%),12(10.5%),24(12.5%) or gradual progession towards the full effect granted by natural conversion**, based on the scaling.).

So that ttk through avoidance naturally scales with the size of engagements, as bigger your group as bigger the fights you naturally pick - as bigger the sample size that runs through your passive, percentage based avoidance the more fluff damage you negate, which is ultimately the one thing passive avoidance is all about. It gives room (and importance) to coordination (e.g.: movement, morale pushs, ...) and prevents sheer amassed fluff damage (= permanent uptime; consistency; uncoordinated AoE) to make or break engagements.
The smaller engagements, the more important and reliable skillshots and ST rotations become; if you play solo or in a small group and +24 player bumrush you, it certainly does not - and should not, imho - matter whether your ST stagger, puny root or ST rotation connects, whereas it does matter in a fight against (roughly) equal numbers in small scale (may that be your niche 1v1/1vX roaming encounters or scenario scale engagements).

* That comes through natural stat conversion, leave RR/HtL untouched.
** Normal group, 1-6 member; 8,34% per member to a maximum of 50% of the avoidance gained through natural conversion - upon forming a warband 2.78% per additional member to the maximum of 100%.

Abbd.: It'd effectively only impact small scale and scenarios in the desired way; 'skillshots' would be more consistent, combat more reactionary and active. Whereas in large scale, if say two organized guilds were clash, small groups/solo'ers that are only part of the engagement to 'leech' of coordinated groups without actually contributing much but fluff damage (to pad the killspam/race for loot) would have to play alot more careful or start up overflows/open their groups up ~ or maybe, just maybe, pick fights according to their setup/contest BOs/act independently.

I am personally not keen on seeing an overload of utility on a single stat, intiative already is a viable and sought for stat ~ for me it'd have a pruning, TB/RD/CW-esque touch to it, you'd essentially amplify extremes that are already in place: people with a (reasonable) initiative stack, and people without.

[Telen]

We have rdd meta, Even dot change did not stop ppl play rdd. But instead of playing for a melee fighter, players are asked to nerf dodg\disrupt. Disrupt it's okay, just mdd and the healers are so afraid enemy rdd that they put rr in the dodge\disrupt. Do not break that is not broken. When mdd meta comes, everyone will begin take parrying and the rdd will shine. So we nerf it too?

Who really suffered from disrupt is my heal shamy, but it only shaman problems, rip.

From what ive seen its still the same rdd classes dominating pugfights. The classes with short repeatable burst that they can just repeat until one isnt disrupted, maybe one rotation extra. Its the classes that have long build ups that get disrupted that you cant just repeat that suffer. Dots have cleanse, easier reaction heals, easier reaction absorbs and now two higher defence checks to go against.
Swtor fixed this dot issue in pvp by having dots refresh from some dd so you could repeat burst windows but thats not here.

Shammy have an intel steal, that last time I played stacked with pots, that gives them higher strikethrough vs willpower. So if they get %strikethrough aswell they then have an advantage.

[dansari]

Instead of buffing magical RDPS, add a -15% disrupt debuff to the tactic Pierce Defenses (that all physical RDPS have and use atm).
Adding this disrupt debuff to physical RDPS will not buffing them (because they're not using magic), but will add more synergy and solve the issue.

I really like this idea. It's simple and doesn't "nerf" anything. However, it may further make classes like engy just a support dps class (not necessarily a bad thing), and "buffs"/is better for order as a whole because they have two classes that can use rather than one.

[Aurandilaz]

Physical damage has to deal with armor. Not all targets are ideal for physical damage like tanks...
Magic damage has to deal with disrupt. Not all targets are ideal for magic damage like healer's...

...all physical damage classes have way of dealing with enemy armor stacking. Either they have mechanics that make them into can-openers (WE-WH), high WS (slayer Choppa) or otherwise good debuffs and armor ignore potential (Mara-WL) or can stack high WS/debuffs and pewpew from distance (SW-SH-engi). Tanks leash out mediocre dps as they are not supposed to even be real dps and were designed for utility/support role where their debuffs help the real dps do real dps.
Then they have abilities like Flanking that further incentives them to hit enemy backs, where they cannot be parried nor blocked for best dmg.
Which we all know, and is the reason why meleetrain is preferred group form for 6manning due to how effective a well performing meleetrain can be, as long as the group is able to keep the train running on full speed.


Magical casters meanwhile play a game of RNG, "do 3/5th of my spells land or should I start rolling the dice with next target?". There is no real mechanic against working around enemy Disrupts like melees work around armor stacking (few special cases ofc where there exist StrikeThrough for some classes). Disrupt happens with 360 degree cone compared to 180 for block/parry.
Sure you can aim for enemy mdps that usually have lowest disrupt rates. Good defensive tanks and enemy healers with brains are borderline immune to ST rotations and there is about no way for magical casters to "sneak around" and hope that by stacking some 2nd skill or hitting their backs they suddenly become a threat to the enemy that is stacking disrupt.


And as for BW/Sorc having top kills in zones; pure pugfarming with high dmg AoE spells. Hit the unorganized pugs that lack heals and tanks, ofc they melt. But they would melt against a meleetrain as well. Arguably pugfarming is easiest atm on Sorc/BW, but good engis/Magi can reach similar numbers or even any good mdps that gets into a proper 6man that specializes in the pugharvesting.

[footpatrol2]

I'd be looking at the strike through mechanic's over the disrupt mechanic's.

I am unsure that the current strike through mechanic's are working the way they did on AoR. I could be wrong, I dunno. Pierce defenses doesn't reduce a raw 15% avoidence as the tooltip reads. It is less then this due to how the current mechanic's on RoR work.

I have to review the current strike though mechanic's to make further comments on this thou.

[Shalktonin]

I don't see what the problem here, as shouldn't healers be more reistant to int based dps forcing people to use melee dps on healers and such. Isn't this the kind of rock paper scissors thing we are trying to achieve?

[footpatrol2]

@shalktonin
yep that is my thoughts exactly.