[Review] [SW] Scout Tactics

[Skalier]

If you want 1a with 5 sec CD, this FA must have 1 sec cast time. But if you want to change it into a not CD It's a 2 sec cast time.

With the fact that 100% bypass is probably everyone agrees.

It's different ability which does not fit other builds because dealing corporeal damages and not require weapon skillis and is better than Fell the Weak. That's why you have to put it somewhere else, in 13th place mastery tree.

[lefze]

If you want 1a with 5 sec CD, this FA must have 1 sec cast time. But if you want to change it into a not CD It's a 2 sec cast time.

With the fact that 100% bypass is probably everyone agrees.

It's different ability which does not fit other builds because dealing corporeal damages and not require weapon skillis and is better than Fell the Weak. That's why you have to put it somewhere else, in 13th place mastery tree.

Have you been reading the posts here? People already think 2 second cast time on 5 sec cooldown is a huge buff, which I disagree with and have been trying to argue for this whole time. Even I think 1 second would be way op though. And while 2 second cast with no CD if the skill has 50% bypass would **** over your burst, spammable 2 second casts with 100% bypass would take away a lot of the downsides of fester being dodged, making the failure rate of bursts much smaller than it should be. And with 100% bypass spamming it might actually create some serious pressure contra spammable with 50% bypass.

As for switching fester and ftw in the talent tree, it has some serious effects on skirmish SW: http://www.ror.builders/career/shadow-w ... 89,3972&t=

And when it comes to implementing 1a on Enchanted arrows, I don't agree with this either, I think the cast time reduction should be on guerilla training instead to prevent this: http://www.ror.builders/career/shadow-w ... 89,3973&t= (It also prevents RR70 skirmish from getting 100% bypass 2 second cast FA)

[Skalier]

That's why the FA should be in 13th place to play scout instead of skirmish.

If someone thinks that the reduction from 3 to 2 seconds cast time is "huge buff" this mean he is wrong because this don't cheange almost nothing. You can reduce victim dodge by even 30% and spammable FA with 2sec cast time and only 50% bypass is still good if you target heallers and rdps which have no guard.

[lefze]

That's why the FA should be in 13th place to play scout instead of skirmish.

If someone thinks that the reduction from 3 to 2 seconds cast time is "huge buff" this mean he is wrong because this don't cheange almost nothing. You can reduce victim dodge by even 30% and spammable FA with 2sec cast time and only 50% bypass is still good if you target heallers and rdps which have no guard.

Again, do we want all skirmish specced SWs to get fell the weak for free?

And I strongly disagree changing it to 2 seconds changes nothing, it's a huge change to how often you can land a rotation even though it doesn't increase the damage (burst) of a succesful one. As for 50% being good I disagree here again, resist buffs are extremely common, most parties have at least 2 people with the option to run it. A 50% bypass would leave you with only a marginal increase in damage against any player that has one of these buffs, as you would in most cases still be hitting against around 300-400+ resists. Against pugs it might be fine, but here again you would gimp the spec to only work in situations where the odds are strongly in your favor from the start.

[Tesq]

That's why the FA should be in 13th place to play scout instead of skirmish.

If someone thinks that the reduction from 3 to 2 seconds cast time is "huge buff" this mean he is wrong because this don't cheange almost nothing. You can reduce victim dodge by even 30% and spammable FA with 2sec cast time and only 50% bypass is still good if you target heallers and rdps which have no guard.

Again, do we want all skirmish specced SWs to get fell the weak for free?

And I strongly disagree changing it to 2 seconds changes nothing, it's a huge change to how often you can land a rotation even though it doesn't increase the damage (burst) of a succesful one. As for 50% being good I disagree here again, resist buffs are extremely common, most parties have at least 2 people with the option to run it. A 50% bypass would leave you with only a marginal increase in damage against any player that has one of these buffs, as you would in most cases still be hitting against around 300-400+ resists. Against pugs it might be fine, but here again you would gimp the spec to only work in situations where the odds are strongly in your favor from the start.

i kind of agree that just generally use something more often dont increase the burst (which is done by a combinatio of things all dome all togheter).
dont agree on the resistence talk resistences dont provide the same protection of armor they soft cap at 40%; vlaue cap is at 641; assuming a kobs is going till stag(which is getting less common now) the debuff is like 160 (buff is 321 more or less.

buff provide around a 20% so half value for the debuff is 10%. With 30% base you then procide to remove potentially 50%+

30% / x% bypass=

50%=15% remaining dmg reduction
60%=12
70%=9%
80%=6%
90%=3%

that tactic give you on 50% bypass around a 15% increase dmg alredy. att 100% removing 30% dmg reduction is an increase of 30% dmg it's the most dmg buffing tactics in the whole game.

The only ppl which are going with more than 641 resistence are generally tank especially chosens. So even with a 50% you will still face only 15% dmg reduction and of course guard on no tank class.

so that's why i said, lower the bypass % because it wont help bypass guard and is unfair vs tanks, you can achive the same results by increase more the dmg of the skill , reducing the cast time, reducing the cd , increase base dmg, make that undefeatble because the more dmg you increase the skill the more it will bypass guard, Atm nothing help you vs guard and that is a good 50% that go away.

when you shoot FA you will always face resistence+ guard, resistence have way to be deal with guard requrie a punt to be done and no other guard, it can't be debuff It would be better something that can consistently penetrate guard ( in the sense of still exit post guard reduction with a value able to hurt. So instead troll tanks with FA, it would be better find a solution to guard mitigation which leave the dmg pre/post guard not so much different or lackluster.

[Skalier]

Again, do we want all skirmish specced SWs to get fell the weak for free?

This is not a very strong skill, it has a 10 sec CD and requires a change stance. The attack strength is comparable to Flanking Shoot. But it would be good to work with a build focused on dealing physical damages in skirmish stance.
I think that the FA, which can be spammed and which deals up to 2.5 k damages, is too powerful. Therefore, I also take into account that in this setting the bypass could be only 50%.

It will make you play on far distance scout + skirmish, or short distance skirmish + assault.
It is known to have a heal debuff must always spend 10 mastery points in skirmish.

[lefze]

@Tesq 641 resists are a way lower number than what is normal in reality. These days even some dps and shitloads of the good healers run winds impervious (and several BL pieces in some cases), making it way past softcap and into the 8-900 range. As for facing guard, it's not up to the SW to fix. Main assist and tanks are a thing for a reason.

As for the tactic increasing damage by a lot, have you not yet understood that the spec relies 100% on that one specific skill that the tactic buffs (Flame arrow is pretty much useless, not relevant to the spec imo)? If fester hits like a wet noodle every other cast at pugs and 100% of the time against equal opposition, you have spent 15+ mastery points into a spec that does absolutely nothing. And frankly a class should not suffer unviability because tanks don't like being hit for 1k+ damage. Resists are not your only defence, toughness, reduced crit, damage reducers, avoidance are still in the game.

Not sure why I bothered replying to this as per Penrils earlier comment on the matter, but whatever.

@skalier FtW is good in skirmish, and is NOT comparable to flanking shot, period. The rest I've already explained at least twice, but keep trying to shoot yourself in the leg if you really feel like it.

Scout+skirmish is a dream, there is skirmish with glass arrow and skirmish with FtW, that's it really. Not getting healdebuff while full scout is pointless, you have few to no that options, but it doesn't mean you are actually actively using it or getting any active benefits from skirmish because of the range req.

Edit: fester was 50% bypass for a while, wonder why it was changed back to 100%?

[Tesq]

@Tesq 641 resists are a way lower number than what is normal in reality. These days even some dps and shitloads of the good healers run winds impervious (and several BL pieces in some cases), making it way past softcap and into the 8-900 range. As for facing guard, it's not up to the SW to fix. Main assist and tanks are a thing for a reason.

As for the tactic increasing damage by a lot, have you not yet understood that the spec relies 100% on that one specific skill that the tactic buffs (Flame arrow is pretty much useless, not relevant to the spec imo)? If fester hits like a wet noodle every other cast at pugs and 100% of the time against equal opposition, you have spent 15+ mastery points into a spec that does absolutely nothing. And frankly a class should not suffer unviability because tanks don't like being hit for 1k+ damage. Resists are not your only defence, toughness, reduced crit, damage reducers, avoidance are still in the game.

Not sure why I bothered replying to this as per Penrils earlier comment on the matter, but whatever.

@skalier FtW is good in skirmish, and is NOT comparable to flanking shot, period. The rest I've already explained at least twice, but keep trying to shoot yourself in the leg if you really feel like it.

Scout+skirmish is a dream, there is skirmish with glass arrow and skirmish with FtW, that's it really. Not getting healdebuff while full scout is pointless, you have few to no that options, but it doesn't mean you are actually actively using it or getting any active benefits from skirmish because of the range req.

Edit: fester was 50% bypass for a while, wonder why it was changed back to 100%?

you really not got my point even if you bypss resisteces 100% you are stuck with guard and is then impossible balance FA around guard.


if you want to be able to effetive bypass guard someone, let aside tank punt , with out stacking effects but by just 1 single fest arrow +2 small dot you will never make it because the 50% dmg reduction make it so.

for extremism let's say base dmg get buffed to 4k (crit) then guard will remove 2k, so now you have 1 skill which do 2k of dmg which can anyway be reduced as you said. by other things so basically guard is act as the primal remover for allow the smaller things as toughness and absorb /heals to keep target up.
So even if the skill per se will do 4k dmg it will still not be good vs a good group it will just , troll tanks and kill pugs with no guard. It is guard which is make a mastery revolved around a 1 skill trick pony fail not lowering the % of the resistences bypass.

You remove guard you do 3.5-4k dmg, you doint remove guard ? you do 1-5 or less dmg; play vs a all or nothing skill is boring as hell and this just going to involve luck on punts or some use to farm pugs as in live.

[lefze]

@Tesq Relevance? This is, again, something every party has to deal with! Do you not see how ridiculous this is? What you are basically suggesting is to give everyone else a **** in the ass because you personally feel like Penril is wrong about how to balance skills, and you personally don't think you can deal with the damage. Brutal assault is basically the same thing, why is there no proposal to change it?

[footpatrol2]

Fell of the Weak is incredibly good. It would be a huge mistake if you moved FA with Fell of the Weak. Fell of the Weak is FAR superior to FA. I can already see some super nasty builds with that. In my opinion, Fell of the Weak should remain a 13 point ability. It has great placement in the scout tree currently.