Return of Reckoning

Oh I agree entirely. However I'm saying that just because a person can counter your counter, doesn't mean that the Detaunt is "useless" or that those who use it are "bad players". You're just looking for an argument with that. Not to mention, the WP/DoKs ability to circumvent your Detaunt is Situational. But that situation is dependant upon YOUR team's placement, which can turn it into a viable strategy to help lessen the heals.

I agree that WP/DoK with ab ex were very difficult to handle. CCs, snare/kiteing, detaunt, challenge, and a few morales where the only "counter". You are arguing the use of the term "counter". The standard counter for a healer is silence and inc/out-going heal debuffs. Alot of those debuffs can be cleansed, does that mean using them to try and counter heals is "bad play"?

I disagree with your argument, not what you are arguing.

Edit: Obviously, there are TONS of other counters to Heals. I chose the ones that fit the terms of the argument at hand, w/o going into a footpatrol post... (Kidding bro)

DPS WP is back to being **** again

Guess its time to level another character until the launcher is out then.

I enjoyed the two games I got to play in which I got a guard and got to actually smack people effectively.

Even though I kind of agree that melee heal was broken in smaller scale fights I'm somehow sad to see it go (for the moment). It was just interesting to see how much upheaval these changes caused. Not only in the community but also in regards how to play. I quite enjoyed this phase were the setups from live just didn't work that well anymore. People having to rethink stuff that has be more or less set in stone for years. In general I think this is important for a healthy game.

One interesting thing I obversed was that even though melee heal was considered over performing in SCs the actual number of successful melee healers remained rather low (e.g. I can think of two DOKs). The impression you could get after reading this and other threads is that nothing ever died because legions of unkillable melee healers roamed the SCs. That just wasn't the case.

patience guys, patience

hopefully this game will be around for YEARS, dont get dispaired cause the changes pause for some weeks ^^

Cimba wrote:It was just interesting to see how much upheaval these changes caused. Not only in the community but also in regards how to play.

Ye very nice how half of the top small scale guilds have been leaving because of those changes ...

zumos2 wrote:

Cimba wrote:It was just interesting to see how much upheaval these changes caused. Not only in the community but also in regards how to play.

Ye very nice how half of the top small scale guilds have been leaving because of those changes ...

if someone leaves this ALPHA cause of changes ... well ... he shouldnt be here in the first place until release stage ...

They didn't leave because changes. They just waiting until someone tell him what current meta is.
Trying to figure it out by themselves means that you will die in process... a lot. And this is just to much

zumos2 wrote:

Cimba wrote:It was just interesting to see how much upheaval these changes caused. Not only in the community but also in regards how to play.

Ye very nice how half of the top small scale guilds have been leaving because of those changes ...

You know 'Top guilds unable to handle change' would make a nice headline.

Looking back the only thing I'm not sure about was the forced experimental. The core tester had plenty of time getting used to the new concept. Having it forced on everyone else after just two days was not a particularly good move IMO. Not sure if the benefit of not having 'mixed' states outweighed to amount of whining that followed.

Tiggo wrote:patience guys, patience

hopefully this game will be around for YEARS, dont get dispaired cause the changes pause for some weeks ^^

My point of view, the time is working against you hardly.
You lost players the last months and i think some development went the wrong way or not the right priority.
If i see the classbalance between order and destro i really ask myself why not play order because chars are mostly stronger there(anyone who wanna flame can have a log at abilities and save his words for fine arguments).

I see many changes in rvr and it feels like you focus so hardly prior to rvr instead of some other things who need it more.
I dont know your way or status regarding xrealm but in easy words, this fecking me up really hard because so many times you fight hours for hours for hours for nearly nothing.
For a loose after a long fighting time.

I dont have problems with a game that is in development and bugs must be solved and other things created but one thing is very important for myself, they priority to what in games needs mostly solved, fixed etc.

The first Year in Warhammer as it was life was crueful, it was a pain with this worst try to balance, with the performance.

Yes, i dont want to make your work bad because some only do what them told(i assume).

As i started this alpha i was happy to see warhammer again, no i really think to delete it and have a look in some months ir til other games are out.
I am sorry for that because i really would play the game but a part of com destroys the game with xrealm.
I really get sad if i see my chars, the ability and the other from order.

I dont know if you have solutions, terms to solve this or work this.
I would really love it to see warhammer became a fine game with good balance, many players, fun and good fights in rvr but it feels so far away....

Dabbart wrote:Oh I agree entirely. However I'm saying that just because a person can counter your counter, doesn't mean that the Detaunt is "useless" or that those who use it are "bad players". You're just looking for an argument with that. Not to mention, the WP/DoKs ability to circumvent your Detaunt is Situational. But that situation is dependant upon YOUR team's placement, which can turn it into a viable strategy to help lessen the heals.

As I explained before, only a melee dps will be able to use detaunts effectively to reduce some of the healing output, and melee dps nearly requires a guard to function, so he will have a tank nearby for the melee dok to switch target - effect negated and now he has cooldown on his detaunt in-case his guard gets kicked what he will do now? Which is why using detaunt for this specific is useless, which equals bad play in my book. Keep in mind I'm not talking pug or casual play but by a group vs another group situation.