Racial group fixing.

[footpatrol2]

Well its not a all or nothing thing. I'm sorry if I come off as such. I'm holding my breathe.

I've made posts and bug reports on the morale gain system and was told we'll discuss it later because the dev's want to do some inventive thing because they think things are broken. This terrifies me.

Maybe I shouldn't share my thoughts? These are just thoughts somewhat brainstormy thoughts. I'm sure even you have entertained the idea of having your own server. Look I wouldn't have even brought it up if tentonhammer didn't through out the suggestion and then get supported by roadkillrobin.

[Jaycub]

So morale tweaks are being blocked because they want to overhaul it?

[footpatrol2]

Morale upon death bug report
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/7084

The racial morale's make sense in a same race racial group to include the spec specific morale 4 abilities. That means the racial 1 2 3 and including spec specific morale 4 abilties.

I can pull up a video. But there is a video from a dev talking about how fights are only to last from 30 sec's to 90 sec's. In the mythic servers morale 4 abilities were able to be achieved in 100 sec's. A lot of morale bombs are tied to the morale 4's. The morale is suppose to be the cannon on the back of the chariot.

The racial morale's are the main component that makes racial groups competitive. Mixed groups generally favor the archetype morales such as immaculate defense and focused mind because the racial morale's don't make sense in mixed groups.

In addition as earlier stated racial groups gained morale faster at 25 to 30% over mixed groups...

Having the correct morale gain system is critical for racial groups to compete, Your bringing your uniqueness throught the morale's all synergizing for a coordinated affect. Its a nuance point. Hence the very first suggestion was to fix the morale gain. I didn't willy nilly suggest things to just wishlist. There is a mountain of thought on this. There are reasons why those morale's existed. Order racial groups are at a horrid disadvantage due to the incorrect morale gain system. Destro can at least mitigate the slow morale gain through morale gain tactics for their racial groups although still being too slow.

I've listed some of the defensive morale cycle's that can be conducted in this thread.

Example:
Some classes have incredibly good morale's such as the dok. Its because they are a main component of the defensive morale cycle and bombs. I suggested that the group cleanse get taken away in my first post in this thread. There are reasons's. The dok had 1001 dark blessings which is needed for the dark elf defensive morale cycle. It also has the super good group cleanse morale 2 and a really good morale 3 for morale bombing. You need 2 Dok's with 1001 blessings to upkeep the defensive cycle. If you blow your group cleanse racial m2 ability you are forsaking your defensive morale cycle. Because morale's are tied to a 1 minute cooldown. You can't afford to blow the morale 2 because your group will be without resists/avoidence/armor. This also give's reason on WHY to take a dps Dok because you want access to a group cleanse and more morale bomb. Do you think you can just morale bomb the opposition with 3 dok's in the group? Your putting your group at risk for forsaking your morale 4 defensive cycle and blowing all 3 dok's morale 3 ability at once for a 3600 30 ft morale bomb that is only tied to 3 classes in you 6 man. There are trade-off's and a entire meta for players that want to participate in these racial groups.

If you can kill a dark rites dok in a dark elf group your breaking the back of the dark elf group. The 1001 blessings DE defensive morale cycle is now ruined. Since all morale is drained upon death. It won't be able to synergize correctly with the other DoK to upkeep the cycle. By killing the DoK your also decreasing their morale bomb component by 1200 damage from their morale 3 ability. These are nuance points hopefully your following.

[Jaycub]

Well the balance implication of morale gain are pretty large atm, off the top of my head reverting back to the way it was on live would mean...

>destro tanks get nerfed as a whole, BG moves up in viability
>DoK becomes stronger thanks to it's incredible M2
>KotBS becomes stronger thanks to no escape being up much faster
>SM w/ wings same as above
>WE m3 usable

not really sure which side this would swing favor too, maybe destro but just not as much as it is now?

I also don't see why racial morale gain tactics would ruin balance, the widely accepted meta groups atm for virtually all levels and arenas of play are mixed groups. Giving something like increased morale gain to racial groups could open up a bit of diversity without them becoming meta, just more viable than before?

As far as tweaking abilities on individual classes for the purpose of making racial groups better, that's a battle you will never win, or at least you will have to make your case on the balance forums... but using racial groups as the main point of your argument probably wont get you anywhere if your recent threads and the reactions are to be any kind of indicator of that.

[TenTonHammer]

>destro tanks get nerfed as a whole, BG moves up in viability

Yes your nerfing the morale gain but BO and Chosen still have the advantage of morale pump tactics and additional morale gain from gear which bg still cant compare with

Even back on live morale pump was still extremely strong

As the game is with morale gain tweaks this would do nothing for BG as Ch + BO would still still top tier, and mara/choppa debuffs, and BO snare > BG’s kit

[footpatrol2]

If you read my first post in this thread BG gets thier morale pump not from the class itself but from the Dok. The morale pump from the dok would be only be allowed for DE players with my suggestion.

[TenTonHammer]

If you read my first post in this thread BG gets thier morale pump not from the class itself but from the Dok. The morale pump from the dok would be only be allowed for DE players with my suggestion.

Real talk for a moment

Is it even possible to create race specific effects? is such a thing even possible for the dev to implement?

Also i thought we were talking just in terms of just morale changes and nothing else hence why i said the game as is, 1 step at a time insted of mass changes "conservative overarching" balances changes if you will

[wargrimnir]

If you read my first post in this thread BG gets thier morale pump not from the class itself but from the Dok. The morale pump from the dok would be only be allowed for DE players with my suggestion.

Real talk for a moment

Is it even possible to create race specific effects? is such a thing even possible for the dev to implement?

Also i thought we were talking just in terms of just morale changes and nothing else hence why i said the game as is, 1 step at a time insted of mass changes "conservative overarching" balances changes if you will

Hammerers have a few effects left in the game. Torque was playing with them a couple days ago. Making new stuff is quite a ways off, but there's a bunch of random partially finished stuff.

[Bozzax]

I also don't see why racial morale gain tactics would ruin balance, the widely accepted meta groups atm for virtually all levels and arenas of play are mixed groups. Giving something like increased morale gain to racial groups could open up a bit of diversity without them becoming meta, just more viable than before

Promoting stuff that enables for example 4 IBs to do 4x2.5k morale direct damage every 100-120s or so is lol

[Jaycub]

I also don't see why racial morale gain tactics would ruin balance, the widely accepted meta groups atm for virtually all levels and arenas of play are mixed groups. Giving something like increased morale gain to racial groups could open up a bit of diversity without them becoming meta, just more viable than before

Promoting stuff that enables for example 4 IBs to do 4x2.5k morale direct damage everyman or so is laughable

What stops someone from running a group with 4 ibs and 2 am w/ morale pump right now in a warband?